General Chat

I still say "different from" and "similar to" - I remember the red lines through our work if the spelling or grammar was not correct. When I was a student nurse, the teacher who had taught us English was admitted as a patient - and she remembered me!

I wonder what she would think of this "text speak/talk"??????

Liz

Yes, along with many of you I was taught English at Grammar School and had full coverage of the rules etc. and the best way to remember them... a conjunction = a joining word, a verb = a 'doing' word etc. etc. and I must admit it has stood me in reasonably good stead.

Ann in Glos - example of split infinitive......... she quickly walked ...... it should be she walked quickly. The way we remembered it was to to mentally say, she quickly? she quickly what? You now need an explanation for what..? quickly is an adverb and should follow a verb hence the correct order she walked(verb) quickly(adverb). It has been a long long time since I left school (dare I say over 50 years!!) but I think I have remembered correctly. If not, apologies.

Yes Julia, One Export Manager I worked for, made me do a letter all over again because I had a comma in the wrong place.
This was the days before Word Processors, and Tippex. The carbon copies with the piece of paper inserted to stop the rubber making a mess of the copies, and Manual Typewriters.
I did graduate to an Electric Golf Ball Typewriter, just before I left work to care for my father, and was away for a couple of years. When I wanted to return to work, had to go back to College to learn Word Processors, and was then in my fifties.
Still it put me in good stead for using Computers.

Mo

Oooh Sally... you floozie, you, lolol!! I have to say that I asked for extra Art lessons at my new school. I was 15 and had fallen hook line and sinker for a lad in the lower 5th........ *sigh*

I married him, lololol!!

I came top once, and in the top 3 out of 156/7 in my year in English Lang and Lit (with Oral)........ every year for 4 years... and still haven't a clue how I managed the mechanical bits... but my descriptive and creative writing, it would appear, showed that I understood and was able to use all those mechanics appropriately. I was brilliant at comprehension, (modest, usually, but what the heck, I was!!) and I loved poetry. Plus, I can talk the hind legs off a donkey.... stood me in good stead ;¬))

Ann, did you tell T why you were laughing, lol? Oh, and the hellebores will be wonderful..... shall I bring a trailer up next time we meet, lolol?

Love

Daff xxxxx

As a scientist I actually loved English Language - it had rules you could understand, just like Maths.

In my school we took our 'O' levels a year early, which gave us up to three years to study for A level to ensure we got good grades, like A's and B's

I passed my O level English when I was 14. I was predicted a 'B' but suffered a migraine attack during the exam, and had to settle for a 'C'

English Lit was totally different. I hated it from start to finish. How on earth can you know what the poet was supposed to think when high on LSD, pot or coke, as many often were. I managed to read the Hornblower stories, but little else appealed.

I did manage a pass in Lit (probably equal to an 'A' today) but since then have had no interest in the subject whatsoever.

I was lucky and found the English lessons and grammar came very easy to me.......always in the top 3 and passed all exams with distinction....

...not like my maths......lol.......always in the bottom mind you I handled accounts and did wages and was a treasurer, so I must have learned something.....

I remember sitting in an algebra exam and putting my number and the date at the top of the page........and nothing else........the only reason I had joined the algebra class was because I fancied a boy in that group......

sally

Maggie if you want an English lesson, please don't listen to a politician.

And no they are not taught Grammar or construction at school anymore.
There a lot of things we SUFFERED to learn at school which teachers don't think is necessary to teach these days.

When I sit in front of the TV criticizing the newsreaders, my husband always says.... " language is changing all the time".
OK.... but why then were we given the belt just for getting something wrong if years later it would be forgotten by everyone?

AND.... another thing my husband says a lot... a quote from Mark Twain.... it is a poor scholar who can't spell a word in two ways.

And Bernard Shaw advocated writing a book with no punctuation.

I don't have much fun in our house when I get pedantic.... ha ha ha

Deanna X

"The chief virtue that language can have is clearness & nothing detracts from it so much as the use of unfamiliar words".
(Hippocrates 460-370BC).

Trddys Girl - you have just bought a memory back for me. Some years after learning shorthand and typing, I went to work in an Export Department of a well know stockings manufacturer. The head of deparment even used to correct my shorthand if I had written the wrong symbol. I think he had been someone important's PPS, in the Colonies, and old habits died hard for him. Definitely slapped fingers for me
Julia in Derbyshire

I was the same as Julia, learned Shorthand Typing, and had to be correct.
I worked in Export, and my bosses used to say 'These people you are writing to, can only just about speak English, so you have to be correct in spelling and punctuation'.

My flesh creeps when I hear some of the sentences used today, and my bug bear is 'This moment in time'. Why can't they say 'Now'.

Mo

T now wants to know what made me burst out laughing. Daff, I am, of course, not at all surprised that you could precis something and make it longer Lol Lol!!!!

My grammar these days is confined to trying to spell and punctuate more or less correctly, I think I do most things automatically but couldn't point out split infinitives etc.

All my three eldest Grandsons read a lot and all of them spell badly!!!! I think spelling badly may also be down to the way children were/are taught to read. we started by learning the alphabet, lower case, upper case and their sounds. we then put together 3 letter words Cat, mat etc and built up from there. Don't think they do it that way now or did in grandson's time either.

Now for an embarrassing moment * whispers. I went to English Literature with Language A level classes at Chelmsford college one half day a week. (actually finished the course in Gloucestershire because we moved. however, I digress), For some reason our tutor liked us to read round the class out loud. This class consists of about 3 adults and the rest about 17/18 years old. My turn to read and, quite without thinking I read the word misled (mis-led) as missled. The whole class burst out laughing, talk about embarrassed!!!

I think children are definitely taught English in a way that is totally different to when I was at school.... however, although we had lessons in grammar, where we had to underline verbs etc... apart from the very basics, the rest went straight over my head... far too much like maths, I suppose, all that structure and those rules...

For instance, I wouldn't know what a conjucti-wotsit was if it hit me in the eye.. or at least I wouldn't be able to point it out in a sentence... and try to explain and I glaze over!! I am sure I use them, though, and probably 9 times out of 10 correctly!!

I loved precis, too, Ann... but poor Mrs Williams used to despair of me, because I always ended up with a precis longer than the original text... now I bet you're not surprised at that!! ;¬)) lol

I loved English, but hated the so-called literature that they insisted we read... still do hate many of the *set books* I had to read at secondary and grammar school, having given them a second reading as an adult. However, my head was always in a book, and I was an avid reader of all non-classics.

I think someone else said it all earlier.. the key is in what children read.... the more they read the more they pick up, and the better their written work becomes. Children do not, in general, read as much as they used to.

Finally... I don't really mind how others write on the boards, as long as I can understand it, but as an employer, very poor, illegible written English would have put you on the back burner as far as a job application was concerned... the use of legible and understandable English was essential in the reports staff had to write. But legible English doesn't always need to be correctly spelt, either!!

Love

Daff xxxx

ps, Mrs Williams loved me, lol She wanted me to study English at university, as she said I was a *natural writer*, lol still not sure what she meant. When I eventually did my O and A levels as an adult, my English tutor wanted me to study English and Journalism. So in spite of not understanding the mechanics of the language, I was still considered to be fairly good at it. The fear of these *mechanics* stopped me from taking up the place I was offered. I was sooooo afraid of looking stupid in amongst all those clever people!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Too True Dermot. If I hear another person pronounce the word 'Decade' as 'Decayed', I will explode!!

Politicians are prone to this, so perhaps it's an admission of what they have done to the country over the past 10 years!!

Is that a quote by you Dermot or attributable to somebody else?

"English speech is no honourable guide to English spelling".
(Author unknown).

That was my point Ann. I suppose in some jobs it really doesn't matter whether or not you can spell, but in others it does and if a lot of people apply for just one job then I'm sure that those who can fill in a form properly without mistakes must have a head start on the others.

Kath. x

I too remember commenting on an essay written by my Grandson with bad spelling, apparently accepted by the teacher. when queried daughter was told that it would stop him using his imagination if his spelling was corrected. He is 20 now and still can't spell!! Even though he is intelligent

I went through the Grammar School English Lit and Lang education and certain things stick.

Not starting a sentence with a conjunction, although apparently is it acceptable nowadays.

John and I, not John and me or me and John etc., etc.,

I always corrected my children and they remember the ground rules too. I hate sloppy grammar but I have to accept that, according to the current education guidelines, any spelling and grammar will get you a 'pass' as long as the required content is decipherable.

Sue x

Sorry Ann, I did not want to appear over critical. When I was 16, nearly 50 years ago, I learned shorthand and typing. You had to know how to spell and punctuate for when you transcribed your shorthand back. Mistakes were not tolerated, and you would be down marked for errors. It has therefore, become a habit of a lifetime, to do it correctly. I too make typing errors these days, and occasionally spelling mistakes. But I do agree with you about the way English is taught today.
Julia in Derbyshire

My eldest son is 36 years old and I remember when he was in the first year Junior class (so about 30 years ago), he had to write a short essay - only one page - and he came home very pleased with himself because he got 9 and a half out of 10 and a "very good" written by the teacher.

I read the essay and was appalled to see that he had about 10 spelling mistakes in just one page. When I later asked his teacher why they hadn't been corrected and why he had nevertheless got a good mark, she said that she didn't like to discourage children from writing by pointing out spelling mistakes. I'm afraid I pointed out in no uncertain terms that I thought this was wrong and that if mistakes weren't corrected at the time then he would always spell these words incorrectly.

Kath. x