General Chat

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VESTED INTERESTS

ANNUAL REGISTER

November 19 1766

The new temporary bridge was opened at Black-friars to the no small mortification of the water men who cannot help complaining of this precipitate expedient to deprive them of their bread at this hard time.
Many of us, say the old men, may be dead before the stone bridge can be finished, and it is hard to starve us before our time by a wooden one.

The opposition of watermen was largely responsible for the

extraordinary fact that London had only one bridge until 1750, when Westminster Bridge was erected.

A WALKING CORPSE

ANNUAL REGISTER

February 1767

On Thursday died (as was supposed) Mrs. Margaret Carpenter, journeywoman to Mr. Smith, livery lace maker in Little Queen Street, Lincoln's Inn Fields; and on Friday she was properly laid out, in order to be interred tomorrow; when on Friday night, to the astonishment and terror of the whole family, she came downstairs stark naked, having only been in a trance; as soon as the surprise was over, they put her into a warm bed, and gave her comfortable things for her refreshment; she said she was bitter cold; but her situation so : shocked her that she did not survive above a day or two.

CRUELTY TO A CHILD

THE TIMES

September 21 1836

An instance of the fatal effects of terrifying children occurred last week at a ladies' seminary near Hackney, A little girl, between the age of 6 and 7, for some act of childish disobedience, was thrust into a dark cellar at some distance from the house, and suffered to remain there throughout the night; the dreadful sighs and screams which the child uttered produced no effect upon her inhuman preceptors, and when the door was opened in the morning the poor child was an idiot; a medical man who was instantly summoned, has pronounced her recovery extremely doubtful.

THE HOUSE OF THE DEAD

ANNUAL REGISTER

June 14, 1837

An extraordinary sensation has been created in East Street, Lambeth Walk, under the following circumstances.

For the last sixteen years two brothers and three sisters named Cunningham have resided at No. 129 East Street, and procured their living by mending china etc.

About three weeks since one of the sisters died and was buried by Mr. Gawler (the parish clerk of Lambeth) since which time the survivors have been in an ill state of health, and on Wednesday last one of the brothers died.

On Saturday evening Mrs. Moss, next door neighbour, inquired of the surviving female how her sister was, and when her brother was to be buried? She replied: My sister is a little better, but I have been so ill that I have not been able to go to the undertaker's to order the coffin.'

Mrs. Moss thought the answer a very strange one, and at once proceeded to Mr. Gawler to whom she stated the case, and he (Mr. Gawler), accompanied by a surgeon, instantly proceeded to the house. They knocked at the door several times, but not obtaining any answer the door was forced open, and Mrs. Moss, having procured a light, they proceeded upstairs, and found the corpse of a man in the back room, and that of a female in the front both representing a most horrible spectacle, being in a state of putrefaction.

On descending, a male and female were discovered in the back room, sitting on two chairs, apparently lifeless. A sedan chair was instantaneously sent for, in which they were conveyed to Lambeth Workhouse. They are still alive, but their recovery is very doubtful.

SUFFOCATED IN A GRAVE

ANNUAL REGISTER

September 7, 1838

An Inquest was held in the workhouse of St. Botolph, Aldgate, on the bodies of Thomas Oakes, the parish grave-digger, and Edward Luddett, a Billingsgate fish dealer, who lost their lives by suffocation from the foul air in a grave.

It had been the practice in the parish, for want of sufficient space, to dig very deep graves, and pile coffins in them one upon another till they were filled. The grave in question had only one coffin in it, and Oakes went down to put in another containing the body of a still-born infant. Not returning, he was searched for, and found lying insensible at the bottom.

Edward Luffett, supposing him to be in a fit, descended with ropes to
place under his arm so that he might be drawn up; but immediately on reaching the bottom, he fell, as one of the witnesses said, *as if struck by a cannon ball'.

Afterwards, by advice of a surgeon in the neighbourhood, chlorate of lime was thrown into the grave; and the poisonous quality of the air being destroyed the bodies were got out. A verdict of 'Accidental Death' was returned.

September 25th, 1941 THE TIMES

The death is reported of Britain's oldest man, Mr. Alfred Charles Arnold at Woolton, near Liverpool, and his age is given as 112. Five years ago (when he told me he was 105) he several times came to tea with me in Victoria Street and we had frequent other communications. In build he was quite on the small side, thin, active, alert, and in manner most independent, in no way showing any sign of age, still less of great age; his sight and hearing were quite good; he had a nice voice and was full of conversation and pleasing to talk with.

I gathered that he lived quite alone in a room near St. Mark's, Marylebone; how existing I could not learn; he scorned the idea of an old-age pension, but welcomed gifts of oranges. He was specially keen to get rooms in the Bond Street area so that he could receive and instruct persons who would wish to consult him on the Yoga system to which he personally felt he owed so very much; he could not get help to do this and that depressed him. C. B. GABB.

DR Maurice Ernst, of the Centenarian Club, was scornful of the alleged age of Arnold. He said he saw him about ten years before his death, and then he judged him to be no more than 65.

A leading article in The Times intimated *a mild incredulity*. It is evident that neither Dr Ernst nor The Times leader writer had seen a pamphlet which the author of London in the News found on a second-hand bookstall. In this it is stated that he was baptised in St George's Church, Bloomsbury, in 1829. The entry is in its baptismal register.


No doubt Arnold attributed his remarkable appearance for his years to Yoga. His age is given as 112 in the register of deaths at Somerset House. The cause of death is given as hypostatic pneumonia and senile decay. He was described as a retired journalist of 28 Ferme Park Road, Stroud Green, London.

A correspondent of the Evening Standard has drawn attention to the gravestone in Great Hockham Churchyard
(Norfolk): it bears the following inscription:

Sacred to the memory of
Joseph Ashton
who died Oct. 8th, 1881.

Aged 112 years.

The great age, however, cannot be considered as authentic as Arnold's, for there is no evidence as to date of birth.



NOTE:.....Well I can't find him on any of the census'....anyone else care to look? ( have tried the IGI ...nothing)

I found this article from Time 1941


( from http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,766139,00.html )


In a Liverpool convalescent home last week death came to a trim little Briton named Alfred Charles Nunez Arnold, who had apparently lived 112 years. Alfred Arnold could never prove his age. There were no such things as birth certificates when he was born. He himself admitted that the only evidence he had was a book an uncle had inscribed to him "on his twelfth birthday, Nov. 9, 1840." But people who knew Alfred Arnold never questioned this evidence. For one thing, Alfred Arnold never tried to capitalize on his age. He had much else to do. His life was as full as it was long.

Orphaned when a few months old, Alfred Arnold was raised by a London uncle, a diamond merchant. In 1838 the uncle took ten-year-old Alfred to see the coronation procession of slim young Queen Victoria. Little Alfred, who never grew to be five feet, was bowled over by a surging crowd near the old Temple Bar. Around this time, also, the uncle took Alfred to tea with Charles Dickens and Disraeli; while still very young the boy also met Jenny Lind and Lord Macaulay.


Alfred intended to be a singer, studied with Jenny Lind's great teacher, Manuel Garcia, who lived to be 101. But instead Alfred shunted into newspaper reporting. He spent many years newsgathering on the Continent. Then he returned to England and spent many more years in light opera on the road.


As dewy youth passed and Alfred approached 60, he began thinking of foreign parts again. In the early '90s he went to Malaya to edit a paper, moved on to Japan to become European editor of Tokyo's Japan Times. In 1899, just after the beginning of Philippine-U.S. hostilities, Alfred arrived in Manila. Filipinos arrested the ambitious newshawk of 71 as a spy, left him bound and stripped in the jungle to be slowly devoured by flies. U.S. troops rescued him. Later he went to the U.S., worked on a San Francisco paper.


In 1902 Alfred went to India. In Benares he met an eminent yogi, Chakananda Swami, who was then 147 and who taught Alfred the hoary Hatha-Yoga secrets of vitality. These stimulated Alfred to an even more intrepid period of reporting. During World War I, a ripened newsman of 86, he entered Germany on a forged neutral passport, was arrested at Frankfort on the Main, was saved by the sportsmanship of the consul of the country from which Alfred supposedly came. In 1926 the mature reporter of 98 was arrested in Portugal, condemned to death, thrown into a dungeon. He escaped with a jailer's help and got back to England.


As middle age passed, Alfred settled down to quieter labors. He made translations (he had learned six languages). In 1933, at 104, he appeared as a fireman in a British film. At 106 he said: "I have always been a boy. I am still a boy. How old do I look? Forty? Perhaps fifty. . . . If I had not met a great Indian Yoga teacher in Benares ... I should not even have reached my century."


A few years ago he found it convenient to live in London's St. Pancras Hospital. At no, when World War II began, he took singing lessons again "in order to entertain the soldiers, since they won't let me fight." Sometimes he found it helpful to wear spectacles. His hair began to grey. Said he: "I smoke, drink and stay up late and always shall."

UNBURIED FOR NINETEEN YEARS

ANNUAL REGISTER

July 11 1768

A woman was buried In St. George, Hanover Square, who had been dead 19 years. The reason of her being so long unburied was some years ago a near relation of hers died, and left her 25 pounds per annum as long as she remained upon earth as expressed in the will. Her surviving husband rented a little room over a stable near South Audley Street for 5 per annum, and there she has remained in a very decent coffin all that time.

The husband being dead, the landlord of the room wanted to make an alteration upon which the coffin was discovered.

Thus the husband had 20 pounds per annum for keeping a dead and quiet wife upon earth.

A MUCH-WIVED MAN

PUBLIC ADVERTISER

September 28 1769

A few days ago died at Chelsea, aged 90, Mr. Henry Tetop, formerly a coach master and stable keeper, worth 12,000 pounds. The Deceased had married 13 wives, the last of whom had died five months ago In the 46th year of her age.

AN AQUATIC ADVENTURE

GENTLEMAN'S MAGAZINE

January l0, 1832

The inhabitants of Greenwich were amused by a man walking under the surface of the water in the Thames immediately opposite the Royal Hospital.

A craft was moored off the stairs to which was affixed a ladder, down the steps of which the exhibitor descended to the water.

He was dressed in a manner so as to exclude the water from penetrating, and upon his head he wore a sort of helmet which covered his face, and in which there were two small bull's eyes, whereby he was enabled to see. During the exhibition he remained under the water nearly twenty minutes.

Love the unburied for nineteen years one.

Hi Susan

I knew of a person who kept his Mother's body so that he could still draw her pension. It wasn't found out for a few years. He got away with it somehow.....must look it up :-)

STONED TO DEATH

ANNUAL REGISTER

April 16 1771

Yesterday, between four and five o'clock a mob assembled in a field near Bethnal Green consisting of upwards of two thousand, when they set upon one Clark, a pattern drawer, who was the principal evidence against the two cutters that were executed at Bethnal Green sometime since; they continued pelting him with brick-bats for three hours which laid his skull entirely open.

Never did any poor mortal suffer more than he did; he begged of them several times to shoot him; but they kept stoning him till he died in the greatest agonies. Six or seven are said to be taken into custody on this account.

PREMATURE BURIAL

ANNUAL REGISTER

July 23 1776

The body of a coachman found without any of the common signs of life ... in a stable at Fulham to which he went a few days before in a seeming state of good health to put up his horses, was buried at that place. But when, the funeral was over, a person insisting that during the performance of the service he heard a rumbling and struggling in the coffin, the earth was removed, and the coffin taken out of the grave; when, on opening it there appeared evident proofs that the unhappy man, though then absolutely dead, had come to himself as his body was very much bruised in several places some of which were still bleeding, and there appeared besides a quantity of blood in the coffin.



NOTE: I have my own thoughts on being buried alive and would need a very large coffin to accommodate all the items I shall be taking with me to ensure it doesn't happen.....cos I read a book about it once, years ago, and it scared the life out of me. There are many many stories, even in this day and age, that have added to my fears.....If this entry upsets anyone, please Pm me and I will delete immediately.

A terrifying story of being buried alive, Susan with numbers. As a child I lived near an ancient chapel and graveyard where such a legend had persisted about a young woman for more than 80 years.

The story gave me nightmares and I have asked to be cremated myself, but have a nagging fear of waking up in the flames.

I have often wanted to put up a thread about it Meriweather, but fully understand that it may not be to everyones taste even if I do find it fascinating.


ST MARY-LE-STRAND GRAVEYARD

ANNUAL REGISTER

February 24 1830

The workmen engaged in excavating the ground on the eastern side of Somerset House, on which the new university is to be erected, discovered, several feet beneath the surface of the soil, the remains of a human skeleton without any coffin or shell. On digging deeper they discovered nearly a cart load of skeletons, some of which were nearly entire. The circumstance was mentioned to the authorities of Somerset House, but no one could give any information respecting it, or throw any light upon the subject.

Stow, the historian, relates, that several buildings were pulled down to make room for Somerset House, among which was the original church of the Parish of St. Mary-le-Strand which then stood on the site of the houses east of Somerset House, opposite the present church.

On the demolition of the sacred edifice, the bodies of all those interred therein were exhumed and buried in a hole made for the purpose. The exact spot is not mentioned, but there is very little doubt the repository thus discovered was the place chosen for the occasion, and this supposition is strengthened by the fact that the pit appears to have been of a square form and bodies, with very few exceptions, have been regularly placed, one upon another.

Among them were two skulls and several bones of extraordinary dimensions, and which must have belonged to a person of gigantic
structure.

The *new university* was King's College, which was
completed in 1834.

Me too carol,

a changing world but so similar in some cases :-(


A CHIMNEY BOY'S DEATH

THE TIMES

January 24 1831

On Monday the 17th instant John Pavey, 10 year of age, apprentice to Briant the sweep was sent up a flue at the Omnibus Coffee House, 60 Minories, the top of which flue was from 12 to 16 feet above the roof of the house, and it appears that the brickwork was decayed and that when the sweep had reached the top the whole chimney gave way and the poor boy was found on the parapet dead with his skull beaten in.

The following day an inquest was held at the Golden Lion, Goodman's Yard, and a verdict of ‘Accidental Death’ was brought in, which verdict could not be otherwise so long as the law permits the barbarous custom of using children instead of brushes in the sweeping of chimneys.

From Robt. Steven, Hon. Sec. of Society for Superseding Climbing Boys.

ANNUAL REGISTER

March 24 1794

This evening a set of resurrectionists were apprehended at a house near the turnpike Mile End. That morning a coach was observed to stop at the house and an ill-looking fellow came out of it with a sack containing, as was supposed, a body which he carried into the house and returned immediately with a large hamper, they then drove off to a neighbouring public house when, after a short stay, they took up some others, and were traced to the launch at Deptford.

In the meantime the parish officers were informed of the circumstances and at six in the evening the coach returned with a similar lading which was deposited in the house. Some constables, accompanied by a number of people, surrounded the house, and forcing an entrance, they found two men and a woman drinking tea on a bench; at one end of which lay the bodies of two children.

They were secured, and one entering an adjoining room the bodies of six adults were discovered un-mutilated, besides which the floor was strewed with limbs too shocking for public description.

Thanks Susan
Gruesome reading as usual

re the resurrectionists.......body-snatching became so prevalent that it was not unusual for relatives and friends of someone who had just died to watch over the body until burial, and then to keep watch over the grave after burial, to stop it being violated.
Authorities often turned a blind eye to body snatchers, because with no refrigeration in those days,bodies often decayed too quickly and were considered useless for hospital use.
Actual stealing clothes or jewellry was considered a worse crime!

I too remember as a child, having nightmares about being buried alive,must have read a horror story sometime!