General Chat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8071388.stm

So heartwarming to know that followers of two religions, who worship the same loving and forgiving god, feel the need to kill each other.

Don't know what to say TBH.

There have been agreements/disarmaments/pardons/machinations by rival political parties and for what?

This hatred held by some won't ever diminish and I guess this won't be the last sectarian attack we'll see, condemn and then forget because it doesn't touch us personally.

I don't think it has anything to do with 'Religion'. Tis or was to do with North and South. English ruled and Irish. But these days who knows? Maybe a simplistic view, but certainly nothing to do with any God. Imo :-)

Not sure if it is just down to religion ........, having lived in Belfast and Bangor at one point there was many a day you heard on the radio, that someone had been kneecapped or beaten up, sometimes it just seems to have been drug related, or beaten for something that someone had done, nothing to do with religion or politics :O(

What was that saying ' power corrupts but absolute power, corrupts absolutely ' :O(

Anyone who claims it isn't to do with sectarian issues is in denial.

Of course it's religion! Protestants versus catholics!

It's so easy to say otherwise and adopt the attitude that there is no religious strife in the UK. There is - simple as that. Celtic and Rangers - Catholic v Protestant. Always been the same.

Afternoon Eldrick :-)

I am afraid I see nothing by the links you have provided that any of those involved *worship the same loving and forgiving god* although I agree killing each other for any reason is beyond belief.

I also don't hold the view that any of the discussions using this kind of 'argument' can either prove the existence or non existence of a higher deity.

Edit: I feel you are right when you say that 'Religion' is sometimes used an excuse for many of the worlds problems though. But it still proves nothing more than man's interpretaion for their own evil purposes.

Allan,

I think the widow is looking for the same answers.

I'd at this time take the word of the widow as she was there geting much of the same treatment,she knows what was said and done surely?
Very sad all rounder.

~~~~Eldrick good buddy.

I have mixed feelings about this, maybe it was originally a war waged on religions, but not sure if this is the point now.

These people who perpetuate the story that they are doing this for beliefs, how many of them actually practice it ? when was the last time they visited their place of worship or prayed to their God ! or even lived by the words of it ?

Like you Allan I have seen the good and bad there, many friends who live their do not want these action done in either their faiths or their names :O(

I too have lived there and have friends and family there, from North and South Sheila, and go along with.....

*Like you Allan I have seen the good and bad there, many friends who live their do not want these action done in either their faiths or their names* l

Who is to know if these people who commit crimes actually believe in any God. Only they themselves would really know. But if they do it makes their crimes against humanity more horrendous, whichever Religion they choose to follow.

If your religion puts you on one side or the other politically also...then which is to blame ...the religion or the politics?
Or are they both just an excuse when it boils down to it for selfishly wanting one's own way and being prepared to go to any lengths to get it?

(" I prefer to communicate with my God on early morning walks where I can appreciate nature without anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't believe" entirely agree with you Allan)

it's chicken and egg, though. Which came first - the religion or the politics?

Alan - my point exactly. How can people who profess to belive the same thing kill just because their brand of religion is better than the other...?

I've also spent a lot of time In NI and Eire. At the height of the troubles, the sectarianism was absolutely dreadful. Appaling, from both sides. I agree, most of the people wouldn't want to be allied to this sort of atrocity, but sadly, some of the remainder of them do.

I also agree that this doesn't prove anything about the existence of any sort of deity - absolutely nothing does provide that proof! It's down to personal beliefs based on whatever a person wants to believe. In these cases, they believe they are justified in killing merely for the reason that someone is of a different denomination to them. How insane can you get?

Then we also have to address the theory that this may be more to do with other reasons , power, money , territory ...........
My concern is that there are underlying reasons for these problems, and that sometimes it is almost romanticized by using religion or faith :O(

I remember being in Canada on St Patrick' s day about 20 years ago, we where with a very good Irish friend so went into an Irish bar, the minute we set foot in it, we where aware that is has shall we say certain political affiliations ;O) a young guy came over and once he spoke to our friend he offered to buy us a drink (think he felt akin to him being something like 8th generation descended from Irish roots, his toast was 'up the ***' to which my friend said **** the IRA, they guy seem surprised, I think to a lot of the outside world they think everyone has militant beliefs from there, as our friend said have you ever lived there, seen the devastation or pain caused by any of these parties, and yet here you are sending money back to help a cause you know nothing about !

As in any of these party's there are now thugs and the reason they use to do what they do in any religion is beyond belief :O(

My opinion of course but, I believe they have the same instincts as football hooligans and murderers and use 'Religion' to act out these instincts. Using the Religion card just helps justify their deeds.

It must also be difficult if not impossible for children brought up with such hatred in a family, to judge what is right or wrong until it is too late.

Hi Allan,

Same here, even in Liverpool the 2 teams are supposed to be affiliated to each religion ;O) , but you have members of each family household who support both of them within 4 walls, now if only that could happen in the outside world :O)

The bad news is hate is hate for whatever reason be it religion creed or colour, sometimes other excuses are just used for it, remember hearing the lyrics to this song years ago and thinking it was quite apt .


You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

Hi Alan,

I know shame isn't it :O( , if you put two children in a room alonr different race colour, religion they will start to play together, and find a way to communicate even by gestures, and where supposed to be the adults, the sensible ones, they look too. !

Religion is a tool for social control.

If you can't convince someone that if they do bad things while they are alive, they are going to suffer after they die, how can you persuade them not to kill and steal?

If you can't convince someone that a deity will smite them down if they lie under oath, how can you have any faith in the justice system?

If you can't convince them that all the rules you are trying to make them obey got handed down on stone tablets from the deity, and they will suffer after death if they don't obey those rules, why would they pay any attention to you?


And if you can't convince them that people who believe that different deities gave them different rules are evil and deserving of death, how will you get anyone to fight your wars and win you land and profits?

Religion eh, you either love it or hate it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8071865.stm

Nice one.

'People might think I'm nuts, but I like to think it's Jesus looking out for us'

You said it, matey, not me!

lol

I think I might check out the cat box and see whether any neat images are nesting there.

How come nobody ever sees the likeness of their semi-deity in cat poop??

If it was simply religion then I wouldnt get grief for my english accent as I am Catholic.

Its a stupid crazy situation.