General Chat

My great grandmother had an illegitimate son in 1866, before she married my great grandad,six years later. Her parents brought the boy up, and when she did marry, they kept him, as they loved him so much.

One of the Pastors in our Church never turn these children away to dedicate them.

As was said in the old film 'Blossoms in the Dust' there are no illegitimate children, only illegitimate parents.

Mo

BBC 3 Tonight...8.30pm... Monday 20th.

Under age and Pregnant

School girls tell how pregnancy has affected their lives.

Unfortunately, we have crossed the line whereby the State moves from avoiding hardship to the point where it supports an alternative lifestyle.

A school-leaver with no qualifications has a choice between taking an unskilled job in a shop or factory (if they can get one in the present economic climate) for about £6 and hour, or receiving unemployment benefit or jobseekers allowance(what's that, about £50 a week?), or getting pregnant, no need to work, and being given her own flat, free this, that and everything else which would require a job paying £600 a week to give the same standard of living.

There's an awfully big incentive to go down the latter route.

I recorded a programme the other day from bbc3 called My Big Decision, Pregnancy, about two girls who were determined to have babies young. One was 13 and the other 16, and it was very interesting seeing their journey as they met with other young girls who already had babies and so on. It made them rethink and decide to wait until they had established careers etc. Some of the girls they met tried to deter them from doing it, and I am sure one who is still living at home with her baby and mother, said the parents have to pay for them if they are under 16, and there is no benefit paid.
I think the £200 is a maternity grant to get the necessities and is payable to all pregnant women.

I remember when I was pregnant at 25 with my daughter, who I later lost, my Dad said I had sullied the family name, altho I was living with her father at the time and she was planned. Since doing the family tree, I found out that one of his father's sisters had become pregnant fairly young, 17 I think, and was cast out of the family, according to an elderly cousin who tells me about the family history. I understand she did return to the village to show her fiance later on where she was born but I can't find out anything about her, I feel so sad for her. She was working with an older sister at a big house and was under nursery maid or something, I often wonder if she was led astray by her boss or another servant, and then left high and dry, poor girl. Another cousin of mine, my Dad's favourite niece had got pregnat before getting married, and her partner was married when they met, yet my Dad had conveniently forgotten about that when he had a go at me lol
Oh well, when I went on to have my son, and had no husband, my father said nothing, he was over the moon with my son and they were very close, he even went as far as visiting us in the maternity wing of the hospital, and my Dad hated hospitals with a passion so it was a big thing for him to come and see us. He was so excited to see his grandson.

I do think a lot of parents should be more aware of what their children are up to and who they are with, and should instill in their daughters the need to use contraception at all times, even the first time. The fact you can't get pregnant the first time, is a myth!


Lizx

My daughter was married and divorced with no children when she met her present partner, they went on to have 3 children, the eldest is now 21. So all three children were illigitimate, her partner was also divorced when they started going together. they married in 2003, 15 years after they first started going together., they have always stayed together and are very happy in the relationship. None of the boys, to my knowledge has felt any stigma from being born out of wedlock. None of them are christened though.

Ann
glos

You know, actually, Rose, I wouldn't mind having a go with one of those fake "babies" myself. I know one or two people with small children and one of my cousins has a small baby and another on the way but I don't really see them regularly so I'm always really conscious of the fact that I'm not as used to handling babies as I would like to be. (My sister's a nursery nurse and a lot of her friends have babies and toddlers so she's very hands-on but I feel a bit clueless!)

So I'd actually like to try one out, just to get used to handling a small child.

I think it would be a good idea if every school child of say 14 / 15 was sent home for the summer holidays with one of those realistic dolls that has to be cared for 24/7 lol the crying ones... just give pause for thought that when you have a baby it curtails freedom.

Whatever the rights and wrongs - there seems to be an increasing number of people looking for their "biological" parents on these Boards

A young girl on work experience at our nursery said she would soon have lots of practice with babies as lots of her friends were pregnant. (She is 16).

I said "that's a bit young" and she said " Yes but they get £200 when they get pregnant and that's why they do it!!" She was really impressed.

I don't know if that's the case but she seemed to think it was worth it. Amazingly naive view of all of them.

No young girl who becomes pregnant is stupid, Brinsley... they are generally just naive, and believe the crap that is spouted to them by manipulative young men/boys. Oh, and older men as well.....!

I do agree, that the emphasis on long term relationship is the key, however.

Funny, I lived on the Dutch / German border for a number of years.... always felt that they were on the ball, even though they were quite progressive!!

Daff, yes, apparently I read somewhere that young girls ho do become pregnant in Holland are viewed as being rather stupid. (that's putting it politely)

There are other factors, such as better sex education, starting at a young age with an emphasis on the caring relationship, but it shows it can be done.

Meduck, It is rather hypocritical, that.

It is easy to forget that in the last century, certainly in some parts of the country, 'betrothed' couple were allowed and even encouraged to have sex, to prove that they were capable of furthering the family line. God forbid, though if they didn't get married when the girl became pregnant.

Marriages when the bride was 6,7,8 or even 9 months pregnant were actually quite common. We have quite a few in our tree.

Perhaps they felt guilty later, which is why they adopted a much more puritanical view towards their children and grandchildren.

Lol Brinsley.... didn't realise that my idea had already been successfully put into practice!!

I shall pride myself on good sense from now onwards....... lol But it does seem logical, doesn't it??

Love

Daff xxxx

Holland does exactly that. No benefits whatsoever for teenage mothers - parents have to take full responsibility.

As a result very few get pregnant.....!

It always amazes me that the Government always gets itself in knots wondering what they could do to stop so many teenagers getting pregnant when the obvious thing would be to stop the benefits and the housing. Where I live almost every teenager you see is pushing a buggy. I often wonder if they see past the "dolly" stage - being able to dress up a cute little baby and wonder how they're going to feel looking after a stroppy 14year old when they're still young and could be going out with their few contemporaries that are left and enjoying themselves.
Just my opinion and I in no way include everyone who has a child when they are single in this. There are many other scenarios

When I did my family history I found out my grandmother was at least three months pregnant when she got married. Fair enough, but I already knew my grandfather threw his youngest daughter out for being pregnant when she was single, despite the fact she was in a stable relationship and went on to marry the father
How hypocritical is that?

I think whether or not the parents are married is the lesser issue. What is more important that there is a stable relationship.

I am also strong believer that state benefits should be 'earned', not taken for granted. Sadly the ease in which benefits are paid to unmarried mothers makes it inevitable for a certain element to get pregnant soley to get those benefits, not just once but several times often without any regard as to who the father might even be.

I find that there are more youngsters who *respect*, be it tradition, their parents/grandparents/aunts and uncles/teachers etc than those who *disrespect*. But it is always the antics of the disrespectful few, who grab the attention, as they are the headline grabbers, the gossipmongers' delight.... the highlight of the handwringer's day!! In our day, and in our ancestor's day, too.

I think that any girl and boy under the age of, say, legal school leaving age..... having a baby, then the parents ( that is the grandparents of the baby) SHOULD be held legally responsible for the welfare and upkeep of the baby, until the childparents leave school... ...... I think you might just see a bit of a reduction!

Love

Daff xxxx

Our first two children were illegitimate, I didn't want to get married. A green piece of paper doesn't alter your state of happiness after all. The eldest was christened by the Bishop of Rochester himself (in the late 70's) and he saw no reason not to perform that.

They both had their father's names and we did marry just after second child was born so third one was the only legit birth. BTW we celebrate our Pearl anniversary this year so it's not as though we felt forced into marriage, we are still happy together and would be married or not.

Who knows what personal circumstances affect couples' decisions, countering that though I do wish some of today's youngsters would use birth control especially those not in stable relationships.

Sue x

At the risk of being corrected, I would be inclined to put it down to "incorrect" parenting. I won't say 'bad' parenting because some parents do their best and it still isn't good enough, but there are others who leave the kids to do their own thing and 'trust' them a little too much - and how would some parents know where the kids are if they are not at home themselves?

However, you are right about the assistance. If it meant that the girl and her baby would have to be kept by her parents, they might be more careful, but with government assistance available, there are those who just don't care. They don't think about the moral or psychological side of it - and there will always be people like that - that's life.