General Chat

I'm happy with those paying who can and the government paying for those who can't. I've payed tax and NI since I started work and have never been unemployed so no gaps plus an enormous amount of tax paid via smoking. I don't have children, haven't had to use the NHS very much and so on, so haven't cost the state much. But I've no pension at all and have never had enough spare money to have any savings plus I rent so have no property or anything so when it comes to retirement and any necessary care later on, I will be stymied. Not because I'm lazy or have been a sponger but because I'm not good at planning for the future and have always earned a fairly low wage. I may inherit something from my parents or I may not - depends on what their needs are in the future.

My great aunt was not well off and rented a flat but inherited about £100,000 when she was 83 and a widow with no children. When she became unable to care for herself our family found a home for her and she's still alive at 99. If the state had funded her care initially, the money would be sat in the bank and we would have inherited it when she died - why should we? Much better that she has a decent quality of care and that her money pays for it - paid for it I should say as I imagine it's now run out and the state has taken up the slack.

I'm divided.

My father & his brother led parallel lives, both married & had 3 children, and both worked more or less all ther lives in a print works.

The only difference was Dads brother lived in a council house, where as Mum & Dad bought their own.

Roll on 80 years ( they are both Octogenarians now), both need a little help on a person care level.

They each have carer one day a week to assist in showering .

Dad has to pay, Uncle doesn't. Come the day either of them need full time care, the same will apply.

How come thats fair?

That's my point, more or less, Kay.

If you can pay then you should pay. Only those who cannot afford it should be funded by the tax payers.

Gwynne (off to lunch)

Lots of aged people now needing 24 hr care,some were never in a position to save,,,those now 80+ these are the ones who maybe fought in ww2.came out to work in the backbone of then this country Industry,,,brought a family up ,living in rented accommadation ie council house all their lives, with no chance of ever owning their own home.........what chance did they have to save to old age,,,?
I know lots who just lived from one weekly wage to the other waiting for Friday paydayto pay the tally man,pay for last weeks groceries to then start the process the next week,
and that has been the norm for all their lives.

Its a two way process.

My parents saved all their lives for their "old age" so when, 10 years after Mum died, Dad (aged 96) decided he needed full time care his assets meant that he woud have to fund his own care.

Neither he nor I had a problem with that, that's what his savings were for. It meant he had choices about where he went and we found a lovely place with views over open countryside and a country park a wheelchair push away. It was also close enough for us to visit several times a week. It was like a small family run hotel in many ways and he was comfortable and happy there.

There were a few council funded people there and they had the same level of care but had the rooms without views, and some were sharing. All the rooms had en suite facilities.

It was more expensive than some other places but was perfect for Dad. He didn't have to sell his house but if it had had to be sold then fair enough. It was his house not mine, we already had our own house. He and Mum had earned the money to pay for it, not me.

Yes, I do get irritated when the idle or feckless don't have to pay anything but Dad had also enjoyed a higher standard of living than they had for most of his life by dint of hard work.

We, as tax-payers, can't afford to fund all the necessary care, especially as the baby-boomers reach retirement age. What will have to be sacrificed to pay for it? Hospitals? Education? Other social benefits for those really in need?

We are living in it the family home now, after renovating it, and are renting out our other house. We've tried to save money and both have invested in pensions so would be, we hope, able to fund care should either of us need it. And if the house has to be sold, then fair enough.

Our son is making his own way in the world and neither wants nor needs our money, as we neither wanted nor needed Dad's. If there is any left then I hope he will enjoy it but he isn't expecting it. He works to provide for himself.

Dad could well afford his care and he and I would rather the cash was spent on the health service or Education. I inherited a lot less than I would have done but Dad was comfortable and very well looked after. That matters far more to me.

Gwynne

My Mum, who is in end stage Alzheimers is in the very last few weeks of her life, we have almost lost her several times over the last 6 weeks.

She is unable to move, speak, feed herself or understand what is going on around her, yet has again been refused any funding as they say she is not ill enough!!

We had to sell her home to fund her care, she shares a room and has a view over houses, yet it makes not a jot of difference to her as she can't see it anyway.

Anyone else with a terminal illness would get funding, but our local authority refuses to fund Alzheimers patients.

I don't care about any inheritance, but would like to at least have a token payment to acknowledge the seriousness and terminal aspect of Alzheimers.

i think the saying goes .. you enter this world with nothing ... you leave with nothing :(

See your point Maggie...totally.

Of course there is the other scenario.

*Bob* and *June* have lived on benefits their whole lives......not paid in...bar maybe the odd year here or there when they HAD to else lose their benefits.

*Bob* passes away and *June* becomes infirm and has to go into a nursing home as daughter doesn't have room to look after her in her flat...

She has nothing at all to contribute..and has never contributed....who pays? Do those who have to sell off their assets help contribute to her care to take the pressure of their local authority in the way of higher care fees?

There are ALWAYS grey areas in these situations xx

....scenario - Tristram 'Chinless wonder' lives, with his parents at Chinless Towers.
Been in the family for generations. Financed by the hundreds of acres of 'chinless wonder estates inc.'.
Tristram has never had a 'proper' job - just lives off mumy and daddy.
Mummy & Daddy get old and infirm - Tristram doesn't want the bother of looking after them.
He puts them in a home. He and his parents have contributed nothing towards the buying of the estate. Should he pay?

.....another scenario - Mary marries, has two children - then her OH has an affair - divorce - Mary living on benefits, with part time job - pays the correct amount of tax and national Insurance for her income.
Children grow up. Mary gets a full time job, but not enough income so that she can either contribute to the pension scheme or buy her house - but still paying taxes and National Insurance.
Mary gets old, and infirm, and goes to live with her younger daughter.
Daughter can no longer cope and puts her in a home.
Should Mary receive less than Mr & Mrs Chinless Wonder?
She has, after all been paying tax and National Insurance - albeit at a lower level - but a higher percentage of her income than Mr& Mrs C-W.

Muffs think you have to make your house a gift of deed or something like that,,,but there are conditions.......if you die with a certain time then monies can still be claimed on the property,,,,,,,legal adviser can tell you right on the laws over this,,,,,there are legal ways round it,,,,

So he worked all those years to pay for his house for what?

NOWT.

That just seems WRONG to me xx

my friends grandad had a stroke . ( he lost his wife a few years before) he owned his own home and had a good few quid in the bank , after his stroke he had to go into a home , he had to pay fopr it coz he had money he then had to sell the house to pay for his care , when he died he had nothing to leave to his children , yet if he didnt own his house he would have got the care for free .
how bad is that x

Idealistically, all older people should have the same allowance for their residential care, paid for by the central government, Those who have savings could opt to buy higher standard facilities (but not in the same Home).

The opening quote

"People on high incomes were more likely to believe the State should pay for care than those on lower incomes.”

Probably reflects the view that they have paid through the nose in taxes through out their lives, and its time they got something back!

Both my parents need full time residential care. As their only child, it didn’t bother me if all their savings and assets were used up for their benefit, although I could never convince my father of this. One of the Care staff voluntarily said that she found it irritating that those with assets had to subsidise those who had lived feckless lives…..she was referring to a gentleman who knowingly squandered any income, not those who struggled to make ends meet.

Our children have said that they *hope* eventually to inherit from us, but don’t *expect*.

Many complain about the high fees charged by Homes, but they are relatively cheap if you take into consideration

Personal Attendants
Full Laundry and cleaning
High heating bills
Full board.
End time nursing facilities if necessary.

Compare the weekly cost to a 3* or 4* hotel, and its quite good value.

In that case I'll sign my house over to my girls when I hit 50 ...be assetless and learn to love my roomies when the time comes lol

Why would I want the council to have it when my kids could benefit.?? Makes owning your own house a bleeding mockery.

Alternatively though......I'd want my parents to have the sea view....so I'm no further on lol xx

If the property showed to have a profit if sold ,,,,, then claims can be made against it,,so the less equity the better,,,,

If they dont have a pot to p in then,,,they will get care,but any entitlements go to who ever provides the care,

They may find themselves sharing a room with 2 others,,this sort of thing,,they wont be given a sea view in a single room with tele,phone and own bathroom,,,,,

That's the thing Kay...I have no hands on experience of this.....so I am working on theory rather than harsh realities.

How does it work?

If (god forbid) one of my parents had to go into a care home and they had no money to pay for it...what would happen to them?

Alternatively, If they had equity in their house.....is it always used?

I am really clueless on this xx

Oh but Muffs,,,,,,,only those who can pay will get privileges like pick and choose with bonuses

,,,,,,,,,,,those that cant just get basic,and do forfit their state entitlements....and get back a weekly sum to help them buy things like,clothes,or any extra stuff they may need or want,
it used to be abt£12 week,,,but could bit more now,,,,

Me too, Muffy

On the one hand, I "get" the idea that parents should look after their children - and therefore children should look after their parents, when they are too old to do that for themselves. And, if they can't do that, then they should at least understand that their inheritance will need to be diminished by the cost of their parents' care.

On the other hand, I also "get" the idea that those who've taken the trouble (or maybe just been able) to save for their later years shouldn't be forced to see those savings eaten up in care payments, while others who haven't get a "free ride"

Funnily enough, I've got a view - but I'll save that and see what others have to say first.

Sue x

I'm kind of torn on this one.

On the one hand i think why should people who have behave sensibly and put away for their old age be MADE to pay for their care when on the other hand...... those (like myself I have to say) who have made no effort at all to make provision for their old age get the same privileges without paying a penny.

I really don't have an answer at the mo...as I say I do need to think about it some more but i'm very interested to hear what others think xx

Anyone that can,,,,,,,if not ,,,,,,,anyone who dont mind paying for some poor old citizen.
If it comes out of taxes so be it.