General Chat

I have to admit my reply was rather ironic, but there is the 'scandal' point to bear in mind - not that I would bother going to the press over a light!!

What egged me on to write to him, was his 'waxing lyrical' about 'character lighting' remaining in a particular road - in a more affluent area, right next to where I live, where hardly anyone lives - and then agreeing to the installation of what are close to industrial spotlights in areas where houses are close together, roads are narrow - and it's a council estate - some could see this as implying that we need watching!!!
To my mind, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Personally, I'd like the original 1920's style lights back here - but I expect they were moved to 'pastures new' when bathrooms were installed in the 1960's.

Lady in Red, cycnical it may be but it is my view. I will apologise for appearing to tar all councillors with the same brush.

I do wonder however, how many people would not have bothered to write a second time following the first reply from the councillor, therefore how many people that councillor has failed to visit because he has not understood what they are trying to say? If Maggie hadn't taken the time to explain a second time, nothing would have been done.

It's also evident from the TV programme that some councils would rather quietly do something or sweep it under the carpet than negotiate with the very people who vote them in. Were the people in Winchester asked about their street lighting, after all they pay for it.

But, I will also agree that if there were a questionnaire sent around, 90% probably wouldn't bother filling it in and sending it back...so it works both ways.

As for the scandal, that was following on from my suggestion to maggie last night, and not plucked from thin air. It was a tongue-in-cheek remark. Sorry it didn't come across that way.

TeresaW, what a sad reflection on society that you've posted such a cynical response as to suggest that the councillor only visted because he thought it could become a scandal.
As I understand it, Maggie e-mailed him on Sunday and he replied on Monday. He has then apologised for not properly understanding the problem. This is quite easy if you don't see it for yourself and he has gone out at 10pm on Tuesday night to see for himself. He now seems to be talking to council officers about what can be done to resolve the problem.
That, to me, is perfectly normal and natural behaviour.
We had a recent similar situation where a pedestrian crossing was installed at resident's requests. No-one realised, on paper, just how close to the bedroom window the flashing beacon would be and it was only after installation that the problem came to light (pardon the pun).
A "Baffle" was immediately installed to stop the light shining into the windows and lessons were learned for future installations.
I went to visit a couple of residents last week, not because I thought there was a scandal brewing but because that is what being a councillor involves, trying to find solutions to their problems, listening to their complaints and acting as a "go between" with council officials.
Yes, I know that there are some poor MP's and councillors out there but please don't tar us all with the same brush. Some of us do it simply because we care.

Well done Maggie, he probably realised it could quickly become a scandal if he didn't sit up and take notice. Let's hope something is done now.

Another update.
Had a reply from the councillor today - he actually visited last night, but as it was after 10pm, didn't knock.
He also apologised for not reading/understanding my e-mail properly and agrees it's rather bright - and pointing straight at my window!!
He's going to 'get more advice from officers'.

maggie

Hi Lady in Red,
They are the 'energy efficient' white lights - undimmable ones (or at least they don't dim the one outside my house) and just level with bedroom windows!! I live on an estate - the road is narrow so the lights are quite close to the houses. they may be suitable for main roads, but to my mind are totally unsuitable for residential areas.

George - no he didn't get stuck into the greed trough.
He had a mid-life crisis and...... hired a rent boy or two!! (had to rephrase that LOL)
Still, we all have our little pecadillos.

Maggie, you say Mark is stepping down as an MP.......did he get his snout stuck in the greed troth

Maggie, as I said, I didn't see the programme and I don't have facility to view it on pc so I'm trying to find someone who might have recorded it. I have read about it and wonder what the announcement was that was being made. I'll have to do some digging.
Nationally, the issue of council tenant's rents being paid to Whitehall and then re-distributed to local authorities as grants according to a Government determined formula has been a scandal for years. My own council has paid millions over the years and received nowhere near that amount back in form of grant.
Also, the Thatcher devised "Right to Buy" scheme sees the money from sale of council houses also being sent off to Whitehall, not retained by local councils to be able to build new houses to replace those sold under the scheme.
Local councils cannot borrow money to build new, or improve existing housing. So, the "solution" is to transfer the ownership of council housing to Registered Social Landlords who can borrow money. We're going through the process here now.
If tenants vote yes to transfer to a new landlord then they will get new doors, windows and other improvements because the new landlord can borrow money which will be repaid by the rental income. If they vote no to transfer then they won't get anything because the council can't borrow the money.
If Central Government allowed local councils to keep their rents and the money from sales under Right To buy they wouldn't have to borrow and could do the work themselves.

On the subject of street lighting, I am surprised that a newly installed street light isn't one of the "white lights". We have some near me that give out white light rather than the yellow or orange of earlier lighting. They are a much lower wattage and so more energy efficient and can also be dimmed after a certain time which is what happens with ours. They are on a main road and no motorists have ever complained about visibility. As older lights are being replaced these are going in instead. The light is also bright enough to allow CCTV camers to work efficiently.

(Now you see why I didn't reply last night!)

Teresa - I did!!!
Have now sent my reply - seems like it has already been decided that ALL light replacements (apart fom areas with 'character' lighting will be of this sort:
Mr Collin,
If you read my e-mail you would see that I'm far from happy.
So we're to have the equivalent of industrial spotlights around the estate are we?

I would suggest you, and officers from, I presume the Highways Agency, come around and see this light 'in action'.

This light, despite having a small shade on the front, is STILL impinging upon my life, and will undoubtedly effect others when more are introduced.

Yellow lights cast a glow, white ones are harsh, and when they're level with bedroom windows can seriously effect sleep. Amazingly, I don't NEED to see colour in the dark, neither do I need to have my bedroom lit up all night.
If this was a domestic light, owned by a neighbour I could make an official complaint about it and get it removed. Unfortunately I am aware that street lights (that can effect more people) are exempt from the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
As it stands, people who live nowhere near me are deciding my quality of life on the grounds of........what? I'm not sure, is it expense?

I wonder how many of these lights have been installed in other residential areas, and whether the council is logging complaints.

It strikes me the 'deal has been done' without anyone seeing the result or asking opinions.

Well done on your, and the councils shortsightedness.

I trust these lights will also be installed in the more affluent areas of Winchester - or are they to be privvy to the 'softer glow'?

Regards

Maggie

Maggie, I would Insist he comes round after dark to see for himself....it's the only way it's going to sink in. Of course you could offer to continue the conversation via the letters page of the local newspaper if he doesn't.

Unfortunately, Mark is stepping down as an MP.

Hi Daff,
It sounds like they're going to slowly replace the lights with the industrial spotlights!!

How bleedy stupid is his comment 'you can see colours more clearly' - why would I want to do that at night? I may live on a council estate - but there's hardly a murder every week!! LOL

He will be receiving a reply - and another offer to come round (if he dares) to see the light for himself!!

Well done to Mark Oaten. I was also very impressed with what he's done on that programme, not just with the council rent scheme either. He's obviously continuing work on those areas judging by his reply.

If only we had more MP's like him around.

erm... does that mean, Maggie, that they are going to take away your glaring bright light... and put in an even brighter one?

Doh!!

Not very bright sparks some of these councillors, are they? I do hope you get it sorted.

Love

Daff xxx

Mark Oaten has gone up hugely in my estimation since I saw him on the programme....and the reply you received from him today has cemented that.

Good for him !!! I have a good feeling that he'll follow this issue through x

I received a reply from both Mark Oaten and the councillor today - that's service!!!
Mark Oaten's reply at 09:21:
Hi Maggie,
To be honest I wasn't aware of this system before I did the programme - but when I found out about it I did some work in parliament to find out the figures. That's why I hope the announcement made on the programme - that this system will end - will actually be followed through. It could make a huge difference to housing stock in areas, rents etc...certainly is an issue I feel more aware of now.
Thanks for the words of support too - much appreciated.
Mark

The reply from the councillor (13:00) shows he didn't really understand my slightly ironic e-mail and will get a reply - ie the light is too damn bright and it's the last thing we want!! (he's also pretty awful in the typing stakes)

Maggie (I hope you own't mind the familiarity),
thanks for taking the trouble to write to me. I had a briefing from officers a few weeks ago and found out then that we're proposing to install "traditional", sensitive lighting in conservation areas. Most of the lights you see at the moments are either low pressure sodium (more orange) or high pressure sodium (more yellow) lights. They use about 35w of electricity and are not "dimmable". The nuw lights, as I understand it, are much whiter. That means that, even if they're not as powerful (25w) as the older ones, one can see better, because colours are more natural. For example blue and gree are their natural colours rather than black. I'm told taht the programme for Wicnehster will be in 2011, I do hope you are happy with the result.
Brian
Councillor Brian Collin

It's all wrong. If a council is managing their area adequately, they should be able to continue doing so by keeping the rental money and putting it back into their own areas. But giving it away to others means they have to make cutbacks on their own, slowly running the area down until they need help from other councils...and so it goes on.

Really not helpful, and again central government interference in local affairs.

I didn't see the programme and am really too tired to reply now as I would like to. Can't bookmark the thread for some reason so this "holding" reply will put it into my threads until tomorrow. In the meantime, Maggie, if you get a reply from Mark Oaten would be interested to read it

Because Winchester is considered a 'rich' area, our rents (that's us - the 'rich' in our council houses LOL) are higher than they need to be. Apparently our % goes to Newcastle!!!
I'm paying half my (apparently quite good) wages in rent/council tax.
When was 18, I rented (privately) a 4 room flat - which took a quarter of my wages!!!!
Something going wrong here................

It's pretty disgusting that rents from one deprived area of London go towards the upkeep of other even moe deprived areas of London.
.....wonder what happens to the council rents from the more affluent areas of London?

It was an eye-opener for me too maggie. I really didn't realise that...and wasnt' it said that the money that goes into central government doesnt' come back to assist other councils like it's supposed to. So that's another government scam then....I wonder how long that's been going on and who brought in that idea.

As for lights, only the orange light at mine. I have two bedroom windows and an orange light shines in each of them...I'd love to have moonlight instead but it never happens.