General Chat

Well whatever way you want phrase it we're having to commit money to *helping* (shall we say) Portugal on the road to financial recovery when the whole reason they've had to ask for help is because they can't manage to put their cuts measures through !!! Yet we're having to swallow them ourselves for the greater good...Pffft.

**edit*** I saw an interview earlier which said that if Portugal continue to refuse to implement the necessary cuts then they WILL most definately default on their loans (and..why would they implement them in the future when they've refused to now)....so that's the point when we and other EU members have to come in with the cash to cover it....

It'll Spain next...wonder who will bail US out should the need arise considering we're not even in the currency (sensibly so) in the first place !!!

that was my point Muffy we AREN'T bailing anyone out,

but the fact remains that we sell 50% of our exports to EU countries...so if they go down we will go down also, whatever the rights and wrongs of us being 'in Europe', we need their economies to be stable to buy our stuff!...and Germany is recovering well from recession apparently.

Sorry, julia, but what you said was:
"Just think what a lovely National Health Service, we would have in this country, just as a for instance, if Dashin' Dave was not giving all that £675 million away to a country ..."

You didn't say "Just think what a lovely National Health Service, we would have in this country, just as a for instance, if Richard Branson endowed a few hospitals ..."

So what you were saying didn't seem to have much to do with where you started out, which was by talking about Pakistani millionaires attending a cricket match.

"We do not have a say in/and to whom, aid is given by the government of this country, by the means of our taxes."

Yes you do. You get to vote. And if you, collectively and in at least a plurality, keep voting for right-wing governments who see it as in their interests to prop up corrupt governments, that's what you get.

Our Conservative government was in the process of spending I don't know how many billion dollars on new military planes when it was brought down last month. I didn't vote for them, so I'll complain all I like. But if I'd voted for them, I wouldn't look too clever doing that.

Again, just to be clear: money given to governments like Pakistan's is *not* humanitarian/development aid.

And it isn't really ... productive ... to complain about money given to the government of Pakistan and use that to launch a complaint about foreign aid generally.


"This choice and the right to say it, is my God given right, as are my beliefs on the same.
My daddy, and many thousands like him, fought in a war so that I and my siblings and our families, could maintain that right, and our freedom, in this country. "

As usual, I have no clue what that was in aid of.

You just go ahead and say what you like.

So will I.

I assume that's okay with you.

Our currency is NOT the Euro and we should never have entered into an agreement to bail anyone who is imho...either as guarantor or lender or whatever the circumstances of the 11th hour deal struck just before the election was.

Thanks for that Mr Darling !! NOT !

Just a point re Portugal no money will be going to them from us...any money going to them ( and that will be more acting as a 'guarantor' rather than cash itself) will be given by EU countries which use the Euro.

At worst we will be acting as 'guarantor to the guarantor' .

I wrote a really long post here...and the internet cut lol...you lucky people ;) ( NB how disadvantaged are we when we can still afford to discuss this on our PCs !)

So I'll quote instead:

"In order to meet the UN recommendations on ODA, the UK has committed to spend 0.7% of its gross national income on overseas aid by 2013. In response to those who advocate cuts, Andrew Mitchell is categorical: "We won't balance the budget on the backs of the world's poorest people."

Critics of ODA expenditure would find it hard to argue with that sentiment. The problem arises from the incongruity between this moral concern for the poorest in the global community and the failure of the coalition to make similar ringfenced commitments for the most vulnerable in our own society."

Just read that again , 0.7% ....anyone really think if this country can't be financed on the other 99.3% we DON'T give out , that the 0.7 is going to make a difference?

Don't, please, begrudge the aid to those who really do need it ( whether they have millionaires in their country is irrelevant, so do we!) ....begrudge the waste of that 99.3%, which is down to greed, incompetence and criminal waste of resources...(as well as a world recession.)

Have to say I also agree with Merlin. x

Janey, is it what I said, or the fact that I said it, that seems to seriously offend you.
I was talking about the fact that those two country's have millionaires of their own with private jets, yet we, BRITISH tax payers are giving out £675 million courtesty of Dashin' Dave, in aid.
The millionaires in this country, and I cannot speak for any personally, have been known to give private donations to both country's for whatever reasons, suit themselves.
We do not have a say in/and to whom, aid is given by the government of this country, by the means of our taxes.
But we do have a say in whom we donate to privately, and I for one, catagorically refuse to bank roll Robert Mugabe et al (yes I do know he is in Africa) whilst he salts 'AID MONEY' into off shore accounts, and Swiss Bank Accounts.
This choice and the right to say it, is my God given right, as are my beliefs on the same.
My daddy, and many thousands like him, fought in a war so that I and my siblings and our families, could maintain that right, and our freedom, in this country.
We are not a policed state, YET
Julia in Derbyshire

Anybody who thinks the funds going from the West to Pakistan have anything to do with "aid" in the sense of "helping people in the world who are worse off than we are" ... well, you're wrong.

You're right that money going to Pakistan is money down a black hole, propping up a corrupt government.

So let's try not to confuse that with genuine humanitarian/development aid, could we?

Genuine aid isn't used to buy military equipment, just for starters.

"So, both countries have millionaires with private jets. Well, how about them putting some of their own monies back into their own countries.
Just think what a lovely National Health Service, we would have in this country, just as a for instance, if Dashin' Dave was not giving all that £675 million away to a country ...."

Uh, Julia ... what happened to the millionnaires? I thought you were going to say something about the ones in the UK ...

I'm with Merlin's sentiments on this, entirely.
Julia in Derbyshire

Perhaps it might be a good Idea for Cameron and all the other Snouts in trough Polititians to Put Brain in Gear before opening their collective mouths.It seems now we are having to bail out Portugal to the tune of £6 billion,who,s next Meybe Spain,all curtesy of Labours Darling just before they were kicked out.The Motto of all politcos is "Pull the Ladder up Jack I,m in the Dingy" . We should have the referendum promised and get out of the EU. Save us a fortune.Charity begins at home and when our problems are sorted only then do we dish out freebees.**M**

I seriously can't believe people are comparing financial problems with the problems affecting those in need in Third World countries.

Personally, I blame Lucy from Ethiopia for all the world's problems.

That woman has a lot to answer for.

Yes Robin,dear friend, our present day politicians do rather delude themselves into thinking we were somehow reponsible for the Raj years.
I seem to remember from my 'A' level history days (and not so long ago, as a mature student),that India did gain alot from those times. A brilliant railways system (in its day), and for some, free passports to the mother country.
But as you say, we will in this present day, keep on paying.
Julia, (fence painting) in Derbyshire

And how much is he going to give to bail Portugal out of the s**t.

Bet it will be a few million.

But you are forgetting one thing Julia.

Our somewhat privileged leader is firmly convinced that our ancestors (regardless of how elusive many of them were) are to blame for many of the world’s present day problems.

That means that you and I will somehow have to pay ……. and pay …….. and pay ………….

This country was not built by men in suits, but it,s sure as hell being destroyed by them !

Well said Julia spot on.

One day last week, I quickly read an article in the paper, so I am abit vague on some of the details, but certainly got the salient points.
There was a big cricket match last week, either in Pakistan or India. The local airport had had to close to incoming air traffic, because, wait for it, it was inundated by the private jets wanting to land, owned by all the MILLIONARES from Pakistan and India.
So, both countries have millionaires with private jets. Well, how about them putting some of their own monies back into their own countries.
Just think what a lovely National Health Service, we would have in this country, just as a for instance, if Dashin' Dave was not giving all that £675 million away to a country that spends more time harbouring Al Quieda, and infighting amongst their various sects, to say nothing of corrupt leaders who are lining their own pockets, instead of using our money to do what is is supposed to do, making a better, safer country for its people.
Think of all the operations people here could have, when they need them, instead of having to wait months. Think of all the health research that could be done, and possibly find a cure for cancer. Think of people being refused a drug they need, because it is too costly, too make their dying lives bearable, too say nothing of the disabled who are now having to prove the extent of their disibility, to be able to hold onto what pittance, they get now.
The possibilities for the people of this country are endless, if only our democratically elected leaders would get it into their thick heads that it is not their own private money they are doling out to other countries, but ours, the tax payer.
I always thought 'charity begins at home'.
Here endeth this lesson, off out to paint a fence.
Julia in Derbyshire