General Chat

WASN'T ME, ROBERT.

Scuse me Robert who scrapped clause 28 then!!

Some very eloquent speeches from both houses yesterday, in amongst the gut-churning hypocrisy and sycophancy.

Norman Tebbit spoke very movingly and summed it up well. She wanted him to return to government but his obligations to his wife made him turn her down -

"I left her to the mercy of her friends."

You've brought back some childhood memories for me :-D

It was all very exciting as a child during the three day week. Mom and dad would buy 'pink paraffin' and candles and we would all huddle in the sitting room and play cards and such

Don't fancy the idea much now though!

Lolly, what is 'clause 28' please?

Learning loads on this thread.........................

These two news items from the MailOnline disgusts me!


"Two teachers have been unmasked as key architects of Thatcher 'death parties'. Craig Parr (left), a 27-year-old special needs teacher at Labour leader Ed Miliband's old school led chants of 'Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, dead, dead, dead' at a death party he organised in Brixton, south London, on Monday night. Meanwhile, drama teacher Romany Blythe, 45, (centre and right) set up a 'death party' Facebook group asking 5,000 members 'Who wants to p*** on her grave?' "


" "anarchists" are apparently planning re-enactments of the poll tax riots during the funeral procession, and thus wreck her funeral".


What is Britain coming to???

Charming......I hope they will be brought to task.

As you've gathered, I'm no fan, but that is disgusting behaviour from two people in such an influential position

Don't condemn all of Britain for the actions of a few extremists, Sylvia.

There will be demonstrations, I'm sure, we live in a democracy and it's a price we'll have to pay. A few are "seizing the moment" to express their disgust with the Tory government, Thatcher's death has little to do with it really.

I certainly don't condone it, though.

I hope that I am not condemning all Brits for the actions of a few

I do know better than that


but those few have sprouted from the Britain of today


so why, and how did that happen?


How and why did so many lose any sense of decency, courtesy, whatever you want to call it?

Playing devil's advocate - when did people lose their compassion?

The Tories are planning cuts in benefits for the disabled, ATOS are trying to force people back to work who are unfit for work. The bedroom tax is hurting some. I could go on.

And, to be fair, I don't think any other death of any politician would have sparked such a reaction. She divided Britain in life and in death.

If you didn't respect someone in life why should their death make any difference?

PS.

Neither of them are teachers in state schools. One resigned in February and the other runs freelance drama workshops. The Mail spin makes it look otherwise until you read the text.

In the procession for Princes Di's funeral, it was amazing. I did not want to stand at side of road as it left M1 at J15a, but boss insisted and we stood there with our 2 small children.

A very rough looking young man stood next to me. About 18, hoodie, tattoos. Spoke briefly to him and his answer back was spattered with swear words. We were two deep as procession passed slowly by and everybody seemed to be throwing a flower or two on the bonnet of the hearse.

I looked at my young friend and was going to speak again, Tears were streaming down his face. So I put my arm round him instead. Suited executive type hugging a hoodie before DC even thought about it.

That was another Ceremonial State Funeral. Many people stayed away because they thought it was mawkish and over the top.

What a change in mood for this funeral. I would hope protests next Wednesday are low key - because singing Elvis Costello and Billy Bragg songs and dancing and having street parties is not the way to mourn the passing of anyone who has tried her best in life.

Sylvia, I would respond to your question 'what is Britain coming to?' , but out of respect both for the deceased and Errol's wish for this thread it is not the time or place.

But ask me later :-D

Section 28, because I didn't know what it was either

"In British law, section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988 that prohibits local authorities promoting homosexuality by publishing material, or by promoting the teaching in state schools of the acceptability of homosexuality as a ‘pretended family relationship’........ "

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0022685.html

I believe Maggie did let the power go to her head in her 3rd term and became autocratic,but how many politicians do that?.seems it is a trait of a lot of them!

Her ideas and love of her country were sound.
I have been a boss of a team of men and have noted that a lot do not like a woman being more successful than them which creates "sour grapes"

She was a very hard worker.Something had to be done about the unions as they were ruling the government and the country was grinding to a standstill with all the strikes and 3 day weeks.I know the miners etc had a hard time and needed more support,but I don't think all the strikes help,just make matters worse as is beginning to happen again.

I do like fairness.my dad was a shop steward and fought for workers rights,lost his job a few times for standing up for them,but it's the way strikes only make matters worse for everyone.

In politics you are damned if you do,and damned if you don't .decisions have to be made,sometimes they work and sometimes they don't .
In theory the poll tax seemed a good idea.
Like I am at the moment living in a band E house on my own and apart from a little discount pay the same as the same sort of house a few doors away where 7 people live.They use schools ,and a lot more public services than me.

I lived in London in the 80's and there was a family of 17 immigrants living in a 3 bed semi along the road.
These ideas of raising revenue have to be tried..OK it didn't work,so it was changed...that's life.We all make changes and we all wish we had done things another way.
What happened is history.
We cannot change it and anger is only going to make things worse.

Brenda, I think anyone in power will in time let it go to their head and yes I do agree that Margaret Thatcher was no exception,

May be we should change the system to where leaders are only allowed 2 terms?

I also agree with what you say about the poll tax, Good idea in principle but implementing it in a fair way is another thing and thats where She got it wrong

Roy

No argument either from me about the 3rd term rush to the head...same thing happened to Tony Blair.

From John.....Mrs T was autocratic. That does not build good teams round you. There was an array of talent working WITH Ted Heath. There was an array of yes men and like-minded working FOR Mrs T.

Are you suggesting that there are never splits and divisions in any cabinet office John? Think back to the Brownites and the Blairites.......her autocratic style certainly stood her in good stead for a good long while....whilst G Brown's mobile phone lobbing style came to end pretty quickly !!!!!!

I watched a lot of the speeches on the Parliament Channel yesterday, there were those who had always idolised her, there were those who respected her, there were those who disliked her, and there was the hypocrisy of those who never had a good word to say about her when she was alive and who yesterday were suddenly singing her praises. There were many excellent contributions and I give credit to Ed Milliband as I thought he got the mix of things just right.

Those speeches aside, it is inevitable that there will be a lot of conflicting views voiced in various quarters about Baroness Thatcher, I actually think she would like that as she enjoyed a good for and against debate, well as long as she won the debate ;-)

Although there is much to debate, anarchistic displays by the rentamob type brigades are totally unacceptable. This is not only a solemn occasion, but the funeral of one of this country's longest serving Prime Ministers and such an occasion deserves dignity and respect. Do that lot of idiots not realise that things, such as a mock hanging of an effigy of her in Trafalgar Square and a re-enactment of the Brixton Riots, will only play into the hands of those who already think all people on benefits are layabouts and scroungers :-|

As I have said previously I do not hate Baroness Thatcher, hate is not in my vocabulary. Do I dislike her, yes, as I blame her free market interventions in the NHS as a major contributor to my mother's death in 1988, and shortly after that for myself nearly being denied a heart bypass operation due, for a better phrase, to the rationing of procedures in the late 1980's.

For some to say her policies were evil is a complete misrepresentation of the vision she wanted for this country, she did do many good things but equally she did many bad things, unfortunately it was those who were affected by the bad things that suffered the most.

Her vision of a new economic model for this country was something that was desperately needed and it meant dealing with many of our old heavy industries that were being subsidised by the state and these subsidies were no longer sustainable. However the running down of these labour intensive industries in areas such as, Scotland, the North of England, and Wales, and not providing alternative employment in these areas, did lead to mass unemployment and the consequences of that are still with us today.

Her economic policies were based on growth in the financial and service sectors and these sectors were mainly concentrated in the South of England. She may have been the Secretary of State for Education, however geography could not have been her strong point as it appears that the United Kingdom did not exist outside the boundaries of the South of England and we ended up with a massive North/South divide. In the 1980's in the South employment increased and many areas prospered while in Scotland, the North of England, and Wales, unemployment soared and many areas suffered.

There is no doubt in my mind that as a result of these policies, many who were born around the 1970's, were brought up in households where no one had a job, there were no decent paid jobs to be had. When these children left school in the mid 1980's, many of them had difficulty finding a decent paid job. Regrettably none of her successors, Major, Blair, or Brown, addressed the North/South divide problem, they all hoped it would just go away, and worse, they tried to hide it through various schemes. Many from every generation since then, have found themselves relying on the state in one form or another, and that legacy from 1979 onwards will I fear, be with us for many years to come.

Sadly she will not be remembered for the great things she achieved, she will be remembered for what she failed to achieve, and that was a fairer society for all :-(

spot on :-)

OFITG thanks for that post, a very balanced perspecive of events.

My late husband was the Chairman of manufacturing public company ( and incidentally a life long socialist) His company had very strong trade union(s) which he understood and supported, however he was affected by the knock on effect of strikes, and he struggled with his beliefs as he became more aware that many people on strike where doing so against their will, in the area I lived the trade unions were getting stronger more militant and out of control. When Mrs Thatcher became Prime Minister he/we benefited from some of the many good things she did. However, my husbands company was affected badly due to Mrs Thatchers policies during the 1980/1990, he just could not cope with the growing financial constraints, and despite investing more of his own money, sadly his business went into liquidation along with hundreds of others at the time. It was heartbreaking to see the effect this had on my husband when he had to make nearly 300 people redundant. She did many unpopular things, and it was those who were affected by these things that suffered the most.
I think it would be fair to say he did not have any affection for Mrs T, however he eventually picked himself up and started over again. I saw a young woman on TV last night shouting that "This woman ruined my childhood" it made me stop and think, about my husband and how he got on with rebuilding our lives with dignity strength. We had some tough times, but there is no way I would suggest she ruined our lives. <3 <3