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Abortion Referendum in Ireland.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Dermot

Dermot Report 21 Oct 2017 07:40

The 8th amendment of the Irish constitution gives equal rights to life of the mother & her unborn child.

The Referendum is being planned sometime next year.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 21 Oct 2017 09:29

"cruel, inhuman and degrading" (UN)

Polling indicates a 2-1 vote in favour of reform though opinion in Dublin and Galway may be far apart. A yes vote would have a profound impact on N.I. and IOM.

essential viewing: Red Rock

Dermot

Dermot Report 21 Oct 2017 19:18

The anticipated Pope's visit to Dublin in August might 'ruffle some feathers'.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 21 Oct 2017 20:10

Over 500 years ago Martin Luther plucked most of the feathers from the Pope and his cardinals, nailing them to the church doors. They have not noticably grown back despite use of both hard power ( the Inquisition ) and soft power ( the Pope mobile ). Much the rufflin' about nothing.

Where did it all go wrong? The murder of Michael Collins did not help as the current regime is built on the crime. A very good insight is given by Benjamin Black in his Quirk novel , "Christine Falls". A hard read.

The Vatican theology is so far adrift from reality in France that the roman catholic church barely exists. It is not much better in Co Cork or Dublin.


Dermot

Dermot Report 22 Oct 2017 13:15

The Catholic church I attend in Devon is rarely overcrowded these days. Looking around at those who do bother to come along, I can safely say I'm the youngest - and I'm no longer a Spring chicken - being the proud possessor of a bus pass & receiving annual flu jabs.

One other concern is the paltry Sunday Mass collection. No need for a calculator.

On a positive note, there is ample space in the car park for me to lock-up my faithful pushbike.

:-D

Guinevere

Guinevere Report 23 Oct 2017 06:32

The rights of the already living and breathing should always come before the notional rights of the unborn.

Dermot

Dermot Report 23 Oct 2017 07:29

Ooh!

Life is so precious that some go to extreme technological lengths to conceive. The value of a life does not depend on the desire of those responsible for conceiving that life.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 23 Oct 2017 09:04

To value the hypothetical above the here and now is a serious breakdown in logic especially when the hypothetical comes bundled with risk.

Nobody owns or should control a woman's body or life it may be bearing other than the woman herself. That especially applies to religions which have brought to women nothing except thousands of years of hurt and slavery.

If my late mother could work that out in 96 years why has the roman catholic church still not understood?

Guinevere

Guinevere Report 23 Oct 2017 09:36

I think it's because the catholic church is run by men, Rollo. And misogynistic, unreconstructed ones, at that.

"The value of a life does not depend on the desire of those responsible for conceiving that life."

It isn't alive until it's born and breathing independently, Dermot, why don't you understand that? Basic science.

Dermot

Dermot Report 23 Oct 2017 09:44

'Approaching the 50th anniversary of the passing into law of the Medical Termination of Pregnancy Bill, a report claims that 8 million abortions have taken place in Britain.

Greater access to abortion is hailed by some as a liberation. But for those who uphold the dignity of human life from conception, it is a tragedy.

The basic moral test of a society & its laws is the treatment of human life at its most vulnerable. In the UK, this is severely lacking when it comes to unborn life'.

{The Tablet 21.10.17}.

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 23 Oct 2017 10:05

No woman undertakes an abortion lightly. Raising a child is a 20+ year commitment.

If a woman doesn’t want to abort whether for social or medical reasons, that’s her decision and hers alone. Similarly a woman who feels she can’t support a child for the same reasons should have the option to terminate the pregnancy.

The Religious beliefs of the State (or other’s) shouldn’t be forced on the unbeliever.

Guinevere

Guinevere Report 23 Oct 2017 10:35

*But for those who uphold the dignity of human life from conception, it is a tragedy.*

What pathetic, sloppy journalism. What about the dignity of women?

What about a child raped by her father but forced by a church steeped in archaic misogyny to take a pregnancy to its conclusion? That happened in Ireland

What about the dignity of Savita Halappanavar? Dead because Ireland priorities the unborn child over the mother?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

Ireland has a chance to join the civilised world, I hope it does.

SheilaWestWilts

SheilaWestWilts Report 23 Oct 2017 11:34

I wonder if 'The Tablet' is as vociferous about some of those 'pillars of the church' - to whom life is so sacred - who abuse innocent children?

Dermot

Dermot Report 23 Oct 2017 11:49

I didn't realise the late Ted Heath or Jimmy Savile were Catholics!

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 23 Oct 2017 12:14

Ted Heath was Anglican. Not sure about Jimmy Savile.

Its only recently that the RC church has been able to publicly face the fact that a number of their Priests have committed child molestation.
A colleague was raised in Eire during the 1960's. Her father refused to allow his sons to serve as Altar Boys, to ensure that they weren't put at risk.

No one here or in the media is denying that politicians, celebrates and priests of other denominations are just as likely to offend. However, historically RC parish priests were looked up to by their parishioners. No one would believe the accusations of a child against a 'good man'.

Nyx

Nyx Report 23 Oct 2017 12:20

Tsk Dermot...that's disingenuous.

You know of whom Sheila speaks, though of course it is not just Catholic priests, or people of ANY specific religion who abuse children. Anyone see the item on the news last night re the US not having a standardised law on age of consent for marriage? Children married off to men twice their age for whatever reason ...eg to cover the 'shame' of having been raped they married the child off to her abuser! :-(

There are as many reason for women choosing an abortion as there are women, so I do not want to generalise but I do not believe abortion is a decision the vast majority of women choose lightly. Any more than choosing NOT to have one is a decision taken lightly by those in a difficult situation.

Maybe the Tablet should be encouraging young men to be responsible, before, during and after the event! Maybe we all should.






Barbra

Barbra Report 23 Oct 2017 12:39

One minute of pleasure to create a life .then say no thanks don't want it is cruel & heartless a baby is very precious .& should not be conceived in the first place ..Birth control doesn't that matter anymore ??

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 23 Oct 2017 12:48

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matthew 1:7

SheilaWestWilts

SheilaWestWilts Report 23 Oct 2017 12:49

Of course birth control 'matters' but it doesn't always work. A friend of mine got pregnant whilst wearing a coil.

Nyx

Nyx Report 23 Oct 2017 12:51

Barbra...birth control doesn't always work.

Rapists don't bother with condoms, women still think/hope it won't be them who gets caught out. People get carried away by romance or lust...

Maybe the Tablet should campaign for free condoms? :-D that would stop the rise in STDs also perhaps?