General Chat

What is the basis for the assertion that this woman had an illegitimate daughter? Where did the story originate?

The mum could have been sent away to relations or an unmarried mothers home so the child wasn’t born in the Essex area

There are several births between 1932 and 1938 but without knowing even the child’s Christian name it would cost to buy each certificate

The 1946 birth which Shirley mentioned above was registered as Morris and also as Sims.

It was registered in both Rochford and Southend-on-Sea in 1946, and then a correction or other change was made in Southend-on-Sea in 1978.

The middle name is Violet.

I don't think the S necessarily means that the child was adopted. It just means there was the other reg entry in September 1946. And anyway, she still had the same name in 1978.

Possible parents (in which case she's clearly not your aunt):

Joan K Morris
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Joan K Morris
Registration Date: Jan 1947[Feb 1947] [Mar 1947]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Brentwood
Inferred County: Essex
Spouse: Alfred A Sims
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 702



Joan Kathleen Sims
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joan Kathleen Sims
Death Age: 66
Birth Date: 23 Oct 1924
Registration Date: May 1991
Registration District: Brentwood
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 1629


Alfred Albert Sims
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Alfred Albert Sims
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: 19 Jun 1924
Registration Date: Apr 1984
Registration District: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 12
Page: 1317



ADDED:

"What is the reason for a page number with a suffix letter S?
Each quarter the Superintendent Registrar for a district sends copies of his/her register entries to the General Register Office who then apply a page number to the records for indexing purposes.
However, in some circumstances, e.g. when a birth is re-registered, a further supplementary copy is sent by the Registrar to the General Register Office which supersedes the original copy and in these cases the new entry is given a supplementary number.
This means an original page number in an entry such as 495 might be crossed out and replaced by a page number such as 1659/S or the supplementary number might just be added to the page number.
There are a number of reasons for re-registering a birth, such as:
If at the time of registration the mother was not married to the baby's father, but they have since married, it is a legal duty to re-register the birth, even when the father's details were entered when the birth was originally registered.
If the natural father's details were not recorded at the initial registration but there is now a wish to add them. "
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search-faq.html#pagesupplementary

New thread started:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1399685

But we should continue on this one, where research has already been done.

It’s on freebmd

Sorry it’s 1946. And in the Essex area so would seem a likely


Error in the first posting !

could u tell me where the kathleen was born as i cant find her on rfecords search

thank you for all you replies my nan gave birth to a little girl my nan was very young and had her adopted this was before she married my grandad

Maybe the child was born after 1939 but before she married in 1948

There's one possible on Freebmd in 1943 that has a small s against the page nos which means only a small birth cert would be issued which doesn't show mothers name

This is usual for a child that may be adopted

The child named is Kathleen v. which may indicate she was Kathleen Vera. After her mum

Have you put Vera's name in members trees to see if anyone has her listed

Afraid without the new name for her baby no one can give any info

But there aren't any births reg for a morris withi mmn Morris between 1930 and1940

Plus she was only 20 when the 1939 reg was taken so any births could be between c 1934 and 1939 but none seem to have been reg

sorry haven't been on here for so long its my aunty I am looking for she was bornin the 1930 her mum was vera morris she was adopted but that's all we know

First name(s) VERA M
Last name MORRIS
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1948
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ VERA M MORRIS married
Thomas J Cunningham
Spouse's last name Cunningham
District Maldon
District number -
County Essex
Country England
Volume 4A
Page 1361



First name(s) VERA M
Last name CUNNINGHAM
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1953
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ VERA M CUNNINGHAM married
Neil R Rowson
Spouse's last name Rowson
District Thurrock
District number -
County Essex
Country England
Volume 4A
Page 2124
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005


Two births for the marriages all in Essex so seems to be correct marriages

Possibly
VERA MARY
Last name ROWSON
Gender Female
Birth day 5
Birth month 9
Birth year 1919
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 2003
District Leeds
District number 0921D
Register number D24C
Entry number 238
Date of registration mm/yy 0803
County Yorkshire
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

No child reg Maldon or Chelmsford reg districts between 1930 and. 1940

Births Sep 1919
Morris Vera M Rushen Chelmsford 4a 1046

Births Jun 1926
Morris Francis Rushen Maldon 4a 1282

Births Sep 1932
Morris Michael Rushen Maldon 4a 1251

1939 register

Morris Household (5 People)
169 Mundon Road , Maldon M.B., Essex, England
Start free family tree View original imagePrint
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Frank Morris 24 May ? Inspector Viewer Ball Bearing
Constance M Morris 30 Dec 1899 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Francis Morris 24 May 1926 At School
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Ref: RG101/1531C/001/1 Letter Code:
© Findmypast Ltd

So only two closed records which would be Vera and Michael

Maybe the child was adopted

How do you know she had a child she would only be 20 in 1939

That must be right Shirley as Dawn also has Constance in her tree :-)

Parensts

Marriages Mar 1919 (>99%)
MORRIS Frank Rushen Chelmsford 4a 9_9

Rushen Constance M Morris Chelmsford 4a 999

Dawn has Vera as born 1919 Chelmsford in her tree, so this one?

Sept 1919

Morris Vera M Rushen Chelmsford 4a 1046

actually there are several births for the same name so you need to give her family background

is this her??
1911 census
name: Vera Mary Morris
Age in 1911: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1901
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Fulham
Search Photos: Search for 'Fulham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 98 Gowan Avenue, Munster Rd, Fulham S W
Occupation: SCHOLAR
Registration district: Fulham
Registration District Number: 3
Sub-registration district: North West Fulham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 270
Household Members:
Name Age
William Morris 48
Elizabeth Morris 47
William Ernest Morris 21
Bessie Louise Morris 23
Leonard Charles Morris 17
Gordon Walter Morris 13
Vera Mary Morris 10
Charles Colbert 74
Louisa Colbert 73
Francis Walter Palmer 24
Source Citation

Class: RG14; Piece: 270

you haven't given any name for the child or an area

Was Very Mary Morris married ,when was she born and who are her parents