General Chat

I'm beginning to understand the phrase: 'I'm in two minds'.

Shows how damaging a referendum can be. They'll want another to get back in.

While everybody talks about Brexit & nothing other than Brexit Everything is being left & people are suffering badly. Things like disabled people are being stopped all money's that they have, leaving them with no money to pay any bills let
alone the Rent etc. People are being made homeless or committing suicide. Yes this is going on. Others may lose the job they have then lose the home they have etc. The fact we have food banks says much more then I ever can. While all this goes on some think it's ok because the only thing that matters is Brexit. The thing is we might not have the people for Brexit to care about, or maybe that's what they hope for. I don't know.

The mad antics of the UK are a sure precedent that no other nation will care to follow. It will all end in pain and anger.

May seems to imagine that the phase 2 will be trade talks. Nothing could be further from the truth as Barnier said on Wednesday.

May wanted to get right on with trade talks after the New Year. Au contraire says Barnier. There will be none of that until the UK becomes a "third country" i.e. has actually left the EU March 2019. May has been forced already to accept no talks before March - that is because the EU wants the UK to get its ducks in a row which is far from the case right now.

Whoops. No trade talks would instantly tip the UK over the famous cliff. Whcih brings us back to what the EU have as the phase 2 agenda.

Item 1 is all the good intentions and undertakings from phase 1 which need to be set in cold hard legal stone. No more recourse to Schrodinger's Cat. There is no trust from Brussels. Just doing this could bring the substantive talks to an end.

item 2 is that in order to avoid "the cliff" the UK will need a "transition agreement" (not, as May would put it, an "implementation agreement" ). Brussels sees the T.A. as continuing every dot and comma of EU law for 2 years, possibly more. As well as every dot and comma any new EU law would have to be adopted even though the UK would no longer have any voting rights.

Item 3 "trade talks" is not on the agenda though if everything else goes swimingly well the political dimensions of trade talks may be discussed.

Truly a ship of fools.

I think we have to remember that there is no precedent for this and whatever happens this time will set precedent for any other nation to leave the EU, as they surely will.

That is a huge responsibility in itself.

:-(

While all the politicians go round & round talking about Brexit & getting nowhere. The UK remain in a mess.

The Number of...
Company closures get higher
Unemployment gets higher.
The cost of living gets higher.
The amount of homeless people gets higher
Crimes gets higher.
Disabled people that need real help, but are refused the help they need gets higher.
Suicides get higher

That's just to name a few things.
Q. Who will win if Brexit goes ahead or not?
A. Not the lower paid working people, not the unemployed people, not the homeless people & defiantly not the disabled people. All the people in the hard up classes & need help, well probably get nothing & probably be expected to pay/bail the country out. Oh what an upside-down world we live in.

This is of course just the view of one man, me. I know others might not agree with me on this but everybody has a right to an opinion. You are welcome to add yours with no argument from me.

I mostly agree with Sharron's comments.

Everything will take a back seat whilst Brexit is 'sorted'.

Fiddling while Rome burns...

It does, indeed, Dermot.

I believe it is hard for those born in circumstances like Cameron (whose garden hut is the equivalent of a wage for some) to appreciate. It is a little easier for the likes of Mrs May to understand this because of her family background - but she faces an uphill struggle against some of the Cameronesque people across the board. Shame on them!

Impending unemployment due to work elimination by advancing technology is a reality & one of the worrying social problems to be faced. Unemployment is a catastrophe for the unfortunate individual & for society generally. The state's typical reaction is to abdicate its responsibility & will do so by exhausting every legal option available at its disposal.

Meanwhile, bosses receive pay rises while the lowly employees, who are 'lucky enough' to have something to do at all, are expected to endure further cuts.

Smacks of inequity & injustice.

I believe you're right, Guinevere. Several years ago the UK was known for having (and shown to have) the greater polarization in salaries between those at the top of companies and those on the shop floor/coal face. The disparity seems to have grown.

If anyone who is not into statistics (which I know can be manipulated) questions this, one only has to look at the salaries of hospital employees - need I go into depth?

Successive governments have failed to address this problem - some, unlike Mrs May's, do not seem to have even recognised it.

It is always going to be an uphill struggle no matter who leads the country. I do believe that one way forward would be to limit the percentage difference in salaries between the lowest-paid and the highest-paid members of staff - a re-distribution of wealth which would also benefit the country in lifting some lower-paid employees out of 'top-up' benefits and, so, lessen the burden on taxpayers.

I'd love to hear other suggestions.

While so many of the "haves" don't give a stuff about the "have nots" then committees can pontificate all they like but nothing will change.

C & P'd from the Financial Times

TRIMONTIUM 5 hours ago
Much indignation here. But the fact is that this commission was at the end of term and did not expect to be re-selected.So they jumped in the hopes that they would get the attention which had previously eluded them. Story? What story?

It is a mistaken and dangerous concept to see politicians as people without power. Therein lies the justification for government by the military, religous fanatics and "strong men" dictators such as Putin, Hitler and Mugabe.

In any true democracy power is shared and decisions made by compromise. It can appear to be weak but is not.

The position of the Tory party is and has always been that the best way to help the poor and needy is to have a "freewheeling" market economy where there is maximum opportunity and work pays. Tangible benefits such as housing benefit, truly affordable housing, free further education, state pensions are to be kept to a minimum if they exist at all and are certainly not going to be an impediment to making money.

It is a matter of fact that the countries with the highest standard of living and lowest inequality do not operate such a policy. But neither do they operate the state socialism beloved by Corbyn, Wilson, Callaghan and V I Lenin. Therein lies the rub.

Powerless politicians' pointless promises & propaganda. Disgusting politics. :-P

As to the crux of the article ( which is not brexit ).

"“The worst position in politics is to set out a proposition that you’re going to heal social divisions and then do nothing about it. It’s almost better never to say that you’ll do anything about it.

"The growing sense that we have become an ‘us and them’ society is deeply corrosive of our cohesion as a nation."

I think this is indisputable .

( PS this is my short version ;-) )

:-D :-D

I feel sorry for Mrs May.she took this post on ,and there have been so many things that have happened since then,besides Brexit she has had to cope with.
It is a thankless job.
Here is an email I had from a friend which has a go at the EU...

......Brexit explained.....

Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key
when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.

"Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you
are no longer renewing your club membership, if you would
like to come to my office we can settle your account".

"I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis.

"Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other
matters that need settlement"

*In Mr Barniers office -*

Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so
wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club?

"Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one
of our Club Jackets".

"Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I
haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket
I will send you a cheque for the full amount".

"That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are
no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one
of our jackets"!

"But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.

"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket.
"There is also your bar bill".

"But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes"
says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to
place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our
bar is properly stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at
least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with
the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore
owe us £2600 for the year".

"Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr
Davis. "No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a
club member!" says Mr Barnier. "Next is your restaurant
bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to
make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers".
"Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a
month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next
year".
"I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals
either" asks Mr Davis.

"No, of course not" says an irritated Mr
Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"

"Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to
the clubhouse roof".
"Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do
with me?"
"Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are
coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".
"I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
"Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the
Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week
towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's
not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for
payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do
it".

"This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier.

"Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to
pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for
beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for food you
won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under
and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"

"Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says
Mr Barnier.

"P*** off!" says Mr Davis

Now we understand what Brexit is all about!!!!!

Mrs May's political paralysis accompanied by democratic disadvantages & bitcoin bonkers resulting in her taking the Hubertus Heil exit route via No.10's back door.