General Chat

Who, in their right mind, would leave dogs in a car in a car park. I'm not particularly fond of animals but I don't like cruelty. Surely they should face some sort of reprimand.

That thought crossed my mind too Phyll and I did read somewhere that one woman had left hers there while she went for a meal in a restaurant.

Thank goodness they were lucky enough to be rescued. I wonder what was left in many of the destroyed vehicles. I am surprised there were no sprinklers fitted. It's a miracle there were no casualties, someone could have been trying to leave and been caught out.

Lizx

I'm amazed there weren't sprinklers too, Liz.
There was a casualty. A colleague of my daughter, a member of the Centre of Horseback Combat team, managed to get the horses out of the way, but:

"I and another team member got stuck behind some fencing that had been erected to keep public out, but unfortunately keeping us in so we jumped a 9 ft fence and it had spikes on top. My hand slipped as it was raining and I impaled my hand".

They've also lost expensive equipment and costumes, as part of the hotel they were staying in collapsed.

It ought to be mandatory for public buildings to have sprinklers. There have been several instances where shopping malls and motorway service areas (e.g. South Mimms) have gone up in flames.
There will be a high risk wherever you have cooking equipment.
And what could be higher risk than a car park with over a thousand vehicles, each with perhaps five gallons of fuel?

One would assume sprinkler systems would be fireproof!!!

Likewise, most roofs are waterproof.

As for a 'local water supply' - there's usually quite a good one in most cities - what on earth did the firemen use in their hoses, if not a 'local water supply'?

maybe difficult for normal mains water pressures to reach higher than normal floor levels hence hence a ginormous header tank and pumping system..

Bob

Yes, Bob, a way to ensure water for sprinklers!! :-D

So Rollo, according to your 'reasoning', sprinkler systems are impossible in flats.
Not sure that's really true, is it?

I'd still like to know, according to your 'reasoning' where the Fire brigade got the water to put out the fire?
Could it be pumps?
Pumps that can also be fitted to sprinkler systems?

From it's location surely they could pump water straight from the Mersey :-S

Maggie, will you stop getting above yourself.

You couldn't even get a 101. You have no willy in which to store the knowledge!

fire engines as far as i know use hydrant water and using on board pumps provide enough pressure to reach higher buildings...


"hence a ginormous header tank and pumping system ......."

which developers might not wish to provide!!

True, Rollo,


#you may have noticed a sign informing you that the car park owners refute any loss or damage ...#

but I am sure that most vehicle owners only see that as referring to superficial damage caused by other patrons

??

Sharron - sorry :-(
I'm just being logical. Can't help it :-D

Well, Bob, even I know they have sprinklers in high rise flats. :-D

They're quite high, aren't they? :-S

In the case of a fuel fire you really need foam, but water is better than nothing and might keep it from spreading too far before the fire brigade can get there.

An ordinary fire extinguisher might have put out the original fire. I did see that one was looked for as soon as the fire was spotted but couldn't be found. No doubt any that were installed in the car park would have been vandalised anyway which is probably why there weren't any.

Quote Rollo:
"Due to the closeness of the parked vehicles and the resulting rapid spread of fire it is impossible for the fire brigade to arrive in time for any useful effect UNLESS the car park has at least a sprinkler system and better a foam riser"

..but didn't you imply sprinklers in a car park weren't viable?


As for IKEA, all very well, ...except a woman threw herself off the top of the IKEA car park in Southampton.

Apart from that ......

Most tower blocks are served by Dry Rising Mains, whereby the water is pumped via the fire appliance up a pipe, with an outlet on each floor. Bearing in mind that it takes approx. 1lb of pressure to raise the water 2 ft, that is a lot of pressure to raise it to the top floor of some buildings. For the technically minded, (and before some clever-clogs wants to be pedantic about it) the formula is H=P x.2.304, or, conversely, P = H x .434. H = head, in feet, P = pressure in lbs per sq inch. I hope I have got this right or I am going to look really stupid.

Due to Government cost cutting the Fire Dept had only 2 machines attending at the onset of the fire, a few years ago they would have had 8 engines attending, including one with a turnstyle to enable to reach high areas.They had to wait until other engines came from other areas including Manchester, the water is carried on board and when this was used they did get the water from the Mersey but this again took time.

The Car Park was open sided and being so close to the River the wind on that evening fanned the flames, the car spaces in these buildings are so close together its inevitable that the fire spreads from one to another quickly.

I have listened to the Local Radio phone in including interviews from Liverpool Mayor who was on site, at NO time did I hear about a local Hotel Collapsing or a horse needing to Jump a fence, all horses were taken inside the Area or moved to Aintree Racecourse, as soon as it became apparent the fire was not maintained to the one floor. Perhaps the equipment and costumes were inside the car hopefully they will be insured.

The building will be most likely demolished and hopefully the new one relocated and fitted with sprinklers.

I quoted a person who was there - SHE and a colleague had to get over a fence - a fence to keep the public out - the horses were removed from the scene in horse boxes.
Horses don't normally have hands :-S
She said she was told a part of the hotel had collapsed and she couldn't get inside to retrieve belongings - maybe it was in danger of collapse, I wasn't there - this is what she was told.
But she was 'only' there.

Horses may not have hands, but they are measured in them :-)