General Chat

So with you on the statue removing front......pointless and annoying.

Agree, Guinevere.
If you never hear the 'other side' nomatter how repugnant, what do you know?

People need to argue for their beliefs and have a reasonable argument against the 'opposition', otherwise their view means nothing.

It's no good just putting your hand over your face and going 'Naah'. :-|

It really annoys me when students say we must take down the statue/bust of 'X', 'Y', or 'Z' because they represent something like colonialism.

That is part of history, no matter how unpalatable. Taking it down doesn't change history, it may enable you to forget it, but the worst thing a person can do is forget history - especially the worst bits.

Best thing to do is leave it, but give it the 'finger' when you pass it :-D

I think that the "safe space" has been taken too far.

As for "no platforming" - words fail me. Everybody needs to know the sort of nonsense being spoken by all sorts of groups. And they need to hear it being refuted.

Minority groups have seized on "safe spaces" to stifle debate.

I wonder how much our teaching has improved or how much we've lowered the standards?

'We are seeing real improvements in schools.

There are now 1.9 million more children in good or outstanding schools than in 2010. Our pupils are amongst the world's best readers. Our GCSE & A-levels rank amongst the world's best qualifications'. {Excerpt from The Times 18.01.18}.

Allan, I agree wholly with your comments. The world does not owe anyone a living so why would fit people not keep themselves and, instead, rely on the taxpayer.

As much as there are people with a serious case of entitlement fever who believe they can bypass several rungs of the ladder, there are also admirable young people leaving uni and college who are taking any work to pay off debts and keep their heads above water.

I deleted one of my lengthy pieces on this thread because:

1. My family values its privacy and I could have been in deep doodoo; and

2. Heaven forbid, upon re-reading I found it too lengthy and tedious.

Exactly Allan

Off topic, I know, but in response to Rollo's comment re Engineers and Architects not having worked either on the black top or a building site, the comment is fatuous.

Such professionals DO start at the bottom, even though it is at a higher level than that for a tradesperson.

Would you expect a newly graduated Civil Engineer to immediately start designing major civil woks and infrastructure...hardly.

They'd be employed as part of a design team doing very basic engineering tasks under the watchful eye of more experienced engineers.

The same with a new Architect.

I don't mention my family much, but my nephew qualified as a medical doctor a few years ago. Would I let him perform a complicated surgical procedure on me...would I hell because he hasn't got the necessary experience

Yep always ready to give a view but not ready to answer a straightforward question funny that hey Rollo......

Still not answering wonder why????

I see Rollo is on the boards right now so maybe an answer today?????

Obviously nothing then!!

"The DM is full of unending cluelessness."

So Rollo what in that actual article which happened to be in the DM was inaccurate or worthy of being called boneheaded or cluelessness?

In the OP I did state some might have an issue with it being reported in the DM ... LOL
I like reading lots of different publications as often they will have a slightly different stance on the same subject, which means I get different views so I can debate...rather going to the OP rather than only reading limited publications and possibly having a blinkered view.

But as for Youth unemployment maybe in some areas youth can all find jobs but; and I have no facts I'm asking a question and can't be bothered to goggle it; of those fully employed Youth in some areas how many actually have full time jobs that aren't zero hour contracts and min wage? If they are in those situations they can't live on that.

As for working your way up in a job there are many cases where at least knowing what is needed by those "below" you is an advantage...then you don't make an arse of yourself telling them to do something which is wrong.....many is the time the old guy on the job that knows what the green around the gills young guy is telling him to do is wrong but he does it anyway after all the boss is right.......

Going back to the article cited in the OP

Quote "This is of a piece with the insistence in recent years that university campuses be ‘safe spaces’, where students should be protected from the traumatic risk of encountering anything with which they might disagree or take offence. "

I give you 1991,

Female students' ( females only invited) meeting to decide whether to formally ask the college authorities to stop male students from bringing/showing pornographic films on the premises ( in the privacy of their own rooms') ...

Not so new?

"Youth Unemployment Rate in the United Kingdom increased to 12.20 percent in October ( 2017) from 12 percent in September of 2017. Youth Unemployment Rate in the United Kingdom averaged 15.18 percent from 1983 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 22.30 percent in September of 2011 and a record low of 9.70 percent in August of 1989."

Local stats "Youth unemployment in T & W was estimated at 12.5% for the year ending June 2017 with an estimated 1,500 16-24 year olds unemployed. "

It's my assumption only that 16-24 year old NEETS here are likely to be unskilled, so the corresponding comment re "Manufacturing continues to employ more people in the Borough than any other industry but this has fallen by 1,000 jobs since 2015." might be relevant? As would be the loss of the 'traditional industries' generally especially in the North that would in the past have taken on unskilled youth?

But there is also the problem that too many of the local schools were failing, so I don't think that some of the local youngsters came out with an education that would encourage them to 'aspire' to put it bluntly. But then again, of son's friends ( mostly made at college) the majority by far are either working, in an apprenticeship, or at uni, and not 'flakey' at all :-D


I would say, from my own experience, that it was sometime around the early '80s when an atmosphere of almost disparaging those who had 'jobs' ( no degree required) rather than 'professions' began to seep in. I don't think it did the following generation/s any favours.


But this has shifted rather from the topic of the OP?

My daughter took 3 years to get her first class degree in Geology, and never touched a ston.....

Oh, hang on, she had field trips as part of the course! D'oh!'

..similar article in 'The Guardian' - conveniently ignored.

But why look further than you can throw an insult :-P

So, for instance, you expect a newly qualified civil engineer ( 3 years university, two years on the job practical experience and assessment ) to get started working on the black top?

My niece took 7 years for her first class degree in architecture plus becoming ARIBA. She never worked on a building site as a labourer etc. She makes around £ 80 K rather less than her male colleagues.

There are not large numbers of unemployed young people.

The DM is full of unending cluelessness.
Only a real bonehead would waste time reading it.

Is it possible that maybe those that think they are too grand for lower jobs are also likely to not be able to think for themselves eg the same product of modern society?

I think a lot of it can be laid at the door of the parents giving in to their kids and spoiling them. Look at Maggie examples of her making her kids think for themselves not just accepting at face value, how many parents now actually talk with their kids.