General Chat

:-D

Here's an 'A' listed building that appeared on 'Restoration' - and failed to get any money, either from the programme of Scottish Heritage charities.
It's in Banchorie, Scotland, and was where Somerset Maugham stayed when he had TB, and based his novel 'Sanitorium' on his stay there.
Oh, and I was incarcerated there for at least 3 months in 1962 - but didn't have TB (though Ian, who was in the next room did).

https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2013/07/abandoned-glen-o-dee-hospital-scotland/

It was 'handily' set on fire in 2016, which made it easier for the firm that owned it to turn it into 10 houses and 36 flats. They wanted to destroy a part of the hospital - probably a 'no-no' on a grade 'A' building, but it can be rebuilt to look similar on the outside, but without the 'problem' of keeping internal historical features.

Rollo, you 'state:
"In the case of at least two sites where the existing buildings were destroyed by fire Hampshire C.C. have flatly refused planning permission. Appeals to London have been unsuccessful."

Two cases refused - really? And this leads you to believe planning permission won't be given?
From those figures, one can only assume the majority are given planning permission then.

You go on to 'state'
"Owners of listed buildings ( or any building which is a safety hazard ) can be served with a repairing order and if this is ignored then various bodies have the power to impose the work anyway sending a bill to the owner. Beyond that owners can and sometimes do end up by forfeiting the property."

Obviously, in the case of Sparrow Hall farm, that is just plain bunkum!
The place has been empty since the 1950's - that's 60 years of decay, and 60 years where the owners could have been served with a repair order - but weren't!
Just one, you may say, but it isn't.
Do you remember the programme 'Restoration'?
Listed buildings, but no money to do them up.
Evidence in front of your nose - but you say that situation doesn't exist!!

As for the rest of your epistle, all supposition then, but according to you 'fact', because you knew one instance to the contrary!

Lets look at the real facts:
We don't know how badly affected the house was
We don't know what started the fire
We don't know the family's insurance arrangements
We don't know what the family intend to do
We don't know what the Council intend to do
We don't know if any 'Heritage' organisation will want to be involved
We don't know if planning permission will be given

....but you then start droning on about on about London, as you allege you know a lot about it.
Reality check Rollo - Bere Mill isn't in London!

So back to the OP I wonder how bad the actual damage was?

Looking at pre-fire pictures it almost looked like something out of a fairytale.....

In the case of at least two sites where the existing buildings were destroyed by fire Hampshire C.C. have flatly refused planning permission. Appeals to London have been unsuccessful.

Owners of listed buildings ( or any building which is a safety hazard ) can be served with a repairing order and if this is ignored then various bodies have the power to impose the work anyway sending a bill to the owner. Beyond that owners can and sometimes do end up by forfeiting the property.

Not only buildings in the sticks either. A whole block of Edwardian houses in South Ken were confiscated a few years back when the developer refused to abide by court rulings. ( He was taking his orders from Riyadh ). By the time everything had been put straight inc 6 figure legal fees the developer ended up owing money and went bust. On appeal the offshore owners failed to retain ownership.

My friend who lives around the corner in a house which is still a house was over the moon and threw a party..

Much the same goes for safety. A couple of high rise towers with similar problems to Grenfell look like being taken over with a C.P.O. The current govt is not keen on such actions. However if the other lot got in they intend to widen deepen and extensively use CPO powers re housing, land and vacant property.

It is somewhat drole that while we are EU members EU law has all sorts of regs safeguarding ownership of property and the right to buy land. It is one of the reasons that Corbyn's opposition to brexit is mostly marked by its abscence.

tum te dum

Poor William !!

Rollo, help with repairs is one thing - substantial renovation totally different.

Given where Bere Mill is, a tidy sum could be made from selling the land for building!

In some circumstances, no matter what 'grade' the building is, if the owners don't want to renovate, they don't have to.
Example in case, this building, not a fortified house, but Grade II listed.
House C17 with C19 extension and C20 lean-to; Timber-framed under cement render, black and red pantile roof.
This is a typical three-unit lobby-entry house of the late C17 type. Most of the timber-frame probably survives and it has been little altered.

My relations lived here, in the 1920's:

https://abandonedsuffolk.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/sparrow-hawk-farm-suffolk/

LOL oh dear anyone would think changes had been made to previous comments now that would never happen would it, not to ensure correct flowing debates.

Rollo we all know you did Maggie and myself called you on it but heyho you want to change items and not say so your choice.

And it goes without saying I never said I object to public money etc etc you don't need to put words into my mouth. As usual a debate isn't about trying to make yourself look better than those around you, nor to lie unless you're in Parliament....that was a joke don't start on about how they never lie to us :-)

So back to the OP....What a sad and awful fire I do hope the family can save their home and Maggie what an amazing connection you have to it.

I did not say Caroline that Bere Mill should be open to the public should it be restored. Î did say that consideration of the links to the paper making business might be improved that does not mean unrestricted opening to the public.

It seems that Caroline objects to public money being spent on listed buildings which are in commercial or private ownership. Well it is a valid point of view though not one I agree with. The reality is that there are large numbers of listed buildings which have received substantial public funding but are rarely if ever open to the public. There are even more which have received fairly small grants with public access never considered.

I have a distant rellie who owns a small fortified house in the Welsh Marches. She has received substantial help with repairs but the house is only open to the public on one day each year, the gardens a further 6 days.

No cause so far.
Yes, I realise the cough is a bit long lasting - but it's fading. :-D

Has a cause been given. yet ?or is it assumed a wiring fault?


ps--if that cough has lasted this long get to see a doc,

Rollo, I've got a degree in Religion - but I don't harp on about it, in fact you have accused me of knowing nothing about it, in the past!
Especially Islam. My dad was a Muslim, do you think I never spoke to him about his belief?
Oh - it was a double - I also have a degree in education - for future reference.

Your comment: "If that should happen then some elements of the Portals should be brought back too."

Quite frankly, if the Portals want elements of their past trade brought back - they've got plenty of money to do it themselves!

My ex has some land near Freefolk, and the last Portal complained when a barn was put up.
Said it 'blocked his view' - the barn was in amongst trees, and over a mile away, for goodness sake!!
He just didn't like the idea of someone getting planning permission.
He also didn't like us removing his pheasant feeders from the land - he didn't pay for the right to use the land - he wasn't going to use it :-|

I can 'see' the man on a horse now - I called it a witchy thing :-D

I had flu too! :-D

....ages ago, about November - still have a lovely cough!

......that was just after I got concussed :-S :-S

witchy thing,,,


btw,,,,,,,,,,,did I telll you I've got flu and lost 3 days of living.......... unfair. :-D.

You say use public money to restore it and then it would have to be open to the public, not sure as already mentioned they'd like that for their family home, it's hardly a Mansion where they can just live in one wing while the public roams through the rest of it.

...an English Heritage sign? :-D :-D

..or a witchy thing :-D

I am a qualified electricial engineer. Sorry about that.

I first saw this building over 50 years ago and have always loved it. I like the changes which have been made. If EH are going to help with it then I would delighted.
Our cultural heritage, in this case the built environment, belongs to all of us in the wider sense not just the current reg owners. I have no problem with public money being used to bring this wonderful place back from near death. If that should happen then some elements of the Portals should be brought back too.

Considering some of the resurrection projects current in Hampshire and Dorset the cost of Bere Mill would be buttons.

History you can touch is worth paying for.

In photo No3 right of the flames I can see a man in a hat and No 5 a man on a horse.!!

but maybe its the pills. ;-) :-D

Don't know about Maggie but I can see an angry face!

More than 50 firefighters tackle large fire at ... - Andover Advertiser
www.andoveradvertiser.co.uk/.../15963987.More_than_50_firefighters_tackle_large_...
1 day ago - The flames damaged the ground floor, first floor and roof of the historic Bere Mill in London Road. The Saxon building, which was previously used to supply the Bank of England, was badly damaged, with the flames spreading through the farmhouse and mill. Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service sent 12 fire ..

Oh what a tragic thing to happen.

Maggie,

Look at the 5 pics on the advertisers page in link,,,,,,,,,and image 3&4 are spooky if you look close...what can you see in the flames. ;-)