General Chat

Sylvia - nature over nurture? :-D

The longer I live, the more I think that nature has the upper hand!

I bless my father, and sometimes wonder how my brother, who was 10½ yrs older than me, managed to have the same parents!

Dad always told me "never judge anyone by race, colour or religion until you get to know them. Then, it is OK to not like them because you don't like what they say or do. You don't have to be friends with anyone you do not like, or who has very different values to you."

My brother never had a good word to say about people of certain religions, race or colour ....... he was as racist in the fullest sense of the word as anyone I've ever known.

He got his comeuppance, in a sense, when his middle daughter married a man of a different religion and converted to that religion. Brother did manage to hold his mouth, attended the marriage service in the Synagogue .......... but it wasn't too long after that he began to open his mouth, with the result that he drove his daughter away.

The fact that he eventually turned out to be right in almost every way about his son-in-law, and that they eventually divorced, doesn't excuse what he said before that to daughter, and to son-in-law's face.

How did my Dad raise me to be open and fail so badly with brother????


and yes, we were working-class people!!!

Madge - it's not just a working class thing.
The 'upper echelons' just use different words - and a variety of 'sniffs' :-D :-D

Working class doesn't equate to ignorance - even the most 'educated' can be as ignorant as a plank of wood! :-D :-D
The nicest, least racist, sexist, misogynistic, accepting people I've ever worked with were the majority of dockers at Portsmouth Dockyard! :-D :-D

I mean, I walked into a pub (alone) on a Friday at 5pm, to be met by 'Pedro' - a huge 6ft + bloke who dressed as a matador some evenings, a (female) Flamenco dancer others.
'Hello Miss D...' he said to me, as I walk in.
'Umm - hello' I replied, 'Do I know you?'
'Yes', he said - 'It's Pete - came up to get my Trades Union leave sorted this afternoon. I leave extra early on a Friday to get my 'tucker' on'! :-D :-D
I looked around - yes, it was full of 'dockies'
I felt very safe that evening :-D

total agree Maggie, I am working class it is no excuse for for ignorance, I know right from wrong. I detest racism.

My mum (from Southampton - a 'melting pot' of races) was a bit racist - which I found odd.
My grandad - her dad's - best friend, Sid, was black.
Mum loved him to bits - she called him 'uncle'.
Sid's dad was from Barbados, but his mum was at least the 5th generation of her family born in this country - I traced her family back to Chester in the late 18th Century, then the surname got really difficult to decipher. Spellings were all over the place!

Anyway, when I asked mum why she was anti-black when she was brought up knowing Sid, she said he (and his family) were 'different'. I then explained they were only 'different' because she knew them! I mean, there are plenty of white people she doesn't know - but she wasn't 'anti' them!
Sid went on to marry Mary, a lovely lady who happened to be white - in 1926

I then pointed out that I, her youngest, was regularly called 'Paki' - by people who didn't know me. In my youth, a few sun rays on my olive skin would instantly turn me 3 shades darker than my siblings. Black hair and dark brown eyes added to this farce.
When I had an afro hairstyle - which became huge - as every time my dead straight hair grew a couple of inches, I re-permed it, the abuse grew. By then, as a teenager, I'd learnt to retaliate in kind.
It's quite interesting to suffer the ignorance of others, knowing how wrong and ignorant they are!
BUT imagine if this went on time after time, throughout your life. I mean, the afro wasn't natural, and if I stayed out of the sun, my skin didn't darken, just stayed olive.
By re-arranging my life I could have stopped it - but I didn't cow-tow to any bigot.

Now my hair is silver and my skin nearly white as the melanin has subsided, but I still keep an ear out for unnecessary comments against others.
I have 'interjected' on a few occasions.
For some reason, these racist bullies don't expect an old lady to use the language I use against them - I don't know why - I knew it before they did! :-D

So a liar as well.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7015969/Danny-Baker-tweeted-royal-baby-two-days-posting-racist-monkey-tweet.html

My paternal grandfather was German
The family came to the uk in the 1880's

My dad born 1907 was named Frederick after his dad

He worked all his working life at the Woolwich Arsenal and was on essential war work for ww2 so was rejected for service
I remember mum saying he was very hurt at bullying because of his name and dying he was German !,

But his dad's famiiy werent nazi ,they were just a family born in Germany

I have no problems acknowledging I have German ancestry

He has a.big Cockney mouth very opiniated .but racism has & will be with us for a long time doesn't matter were you are from i mean Yorshire & Lancashire have had their moments.does not matter if you are born in a council house or Palace we all use the.Loo pick your nose .just means you have a better hanky :-D

Sue,

If all workers are "working class" by definition ( and I don't disagree with that, it's logic) then why does D Baker make fun of who he terms "posh" people ( edit: or as I see he puts it today to "lampoon privilege" )? Aren't they also working class like him?

So was he being "class-ist or racist, in your opinion? or just damn stupid?

A few comedians feel so blessed living in a country where they are proud to claim stupidity for themselves.

Well he is a broadcaster so you can't tell me he didn't know who was having a baby
They have been seen often enough and Meghan was trolled mercilessly on Facebook for caressing her bump all the time

He knew what he was doing and thought he was being funny

NOPE he was way out of order and disrespectful..It was clearly a dig at Meghans heritage .

He got what he deserved in my view

Quote from Danny for those who may not have seen it

"He later added on his doorstep: 'I didn't know which of our royal princesses had given birth. Otherwise you'd got to be thinking I'd been secretly waiting to make this grotesque joke. There's no truth to it."

'I've been doing a thing on the radio for years of famous people dressed as monkeys with fairground music.

'My go-to photo when any posh people have a baby is this absurd chimpanzee in a top hat leaving the hospital.

'Had it not been Meghan - perfectly good joke. I was trying to make a point about class and it's just preposterous.'

Even IF you accept that he is telling the truth that he didn't know which "princess had given birth ( I assume he'd not opened a paper, turned on the news, or spoken to anyone at work) then tell me what point about class was he trying to make? :-S

All I was saying.is """Working class"" goes for everyone,Even the top class have to work for their money.
So ALL are working class.

I think every racist who insults the majority by claiming to be 'British and proud of it'' should read about Cheddar Gorge man, and try to digest what it says.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42939192

Racism seems to be on the rise in every country of the world, and is not helped by the current US President.

We ALL have to be careful of ourselves now :-(

I haven't done a DNA test Maggie, not an awful lot of point as I know pretty much all the origins on both sides, back to the Normans on Irish side (so French/ or theoretical link to the Gerardinis of Italy). All the paternal side back to 1500s all boringly English except a Canadian grandmother ( whose gt grandfather was English anyway) ( edit oh yes and some possible gt gt gts in Scotland lol )

I don't blame your sister for being very wary, we are ok now, but who's to say what ethnicity (or part of) might become 'the persecuted' if the country changed at some point in the future?

With the rise of the right-wing in so many places I really do feel uneasy about the future. 'Small steps' led to the Holocaust, eg "Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour"... I can see that same mentality on the horizon.

Agree, Rose!

My sister has taken her DNA results off 'My Heritage', as she's afraid of a potential backlash, due to recent events.
Despite our ancestors living here for a few hundred years - too early to be on boat 'passenger lists' we have absolutely no 'British' DNA, and my sister is worried about potential Nazi style 'cleansing'.
Sad, but true.

Clear enough?

Working class, middle class, upper class. So what? At the risk of sounding too too "middle class" by quoting Shakespeare lol " If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh?"

I am working class because that is my background and that's fine but it doesn't define me nor should it define anyone.

Making it quite clear here, I don't care what class, or none, anyone considers themselves ( or me) to be. If they're racist then I have no time for them on that score, be they Eton educated King or illiterate pauper.

I hate the creep of racism in this country which seems to be becoming more overt again of late , when an FB item about a new baby ( any new baby) has racist remarks I won't even repeat here, then there is something very rotten out there.

It's very insulting when a person is totally offensive and 'blames' it on their 'class'.

No matter what 'class' they consider themselves from.

...and his excuse that he 'didn't know which royal had given birth' is rather lame, considering he worked for the media..