General Chat

Well that was a pointless phone conversation, :-( Five minutes of waffle about cats and the weather and a very brief 'yes' as to whether carers know to contact me in any kind of emergency, before said carers turned up and let themselves in and the phone call ended.

Gwynne that was very upsetting for your family. How cruel to take over an elderly person's life. Frightening when one is already in that age bracket!!!

Thanks all,

Ann I think it was a bit of each.

How dreadful. This was happening to my cousin but my brother, who had her POA and was to be her executor found out and informed the solicitors. It was just that he was too late to get her correct will signed. He was also her godson and saw her as often as he could..

It seems all too easy to take control over the elderly.

Oh my goodness, this thread and particularly Duncan's postings have reminded me of our terrible family experience in early 2000s regarding my elderly aunt, who was 'befriended' by a very influencial person.
As a family, we had always visited ( she lived hundreds of miles away) when we could, phoned frequently and generally kept in touch,but gradually her responses grew less frequent, although when we did manage to contact, she was her same chirpy self and pleased to hear from us.
We eventually found out that her 'friend' was intercepting her mail at home and told all and sundry that aunt had no family.
It all came to a head, solicitors and even a barrister were involved, but the friend had already managed to get the bungalow.

As a family, we were more upset that as the last surviving sibling, aunt was the holder of many family keepsakes, all of which probably went in a skip.

I had a cousin who died intestate. The Probate office refused to accept her unsigned will even though the solicitor & Nursing Home matron confirmed it was her wishes.
Fortunatley we knew her relations ( my siblings & 1st cousins) and I undertook to find my relations on her mothers side. Then we realised that the mother was legally illigitmate even though she lived with her natural parents. Which was lucky as I couldn't find what had happened to those relations - common name. Things have changed now.
An elderly neighbour died recently. His only relation had never has anything to do with him so it all did get left to the cats home, amongst other animal charities.

namelessone, I honestly don't know about a will, she has told my contact there is one, but I seriously doubt it given her stance on them. I think it was said to shut us up on the subject, she is adept at that, when she doesn't want to hear something she changes the subject to my cats.

She hasn't got a funeral plan that's certain. There are 2 cousins that I 'found' on the tree I did for her, they would be able to claim if she died intestate and I could find them if needed, with a bit of research. If not I'm sure she'd rather any remaining money went to the RSPCA or Cats Protection than to the govt.

I'm not clear if your friend has now made a will. If so you could leave your details with the solicitors. If she hasn't impress on her that the government will get everything she has. Unless unknown rellies come out of the woodwork.

Has she paid for a funeral plan, you could leave your details there too.

She may have a favourite charity (or a very good friend) to leave things to.

Reading through quickly,

Duncan I'm really sorry to hear you had such difficulties.

Maggie, this line struck me "what would have happened if his niece was still living abroad? I can't get down there, I don't drive, and have no 'authority' as I'm not a relative." that is more or less the position I am in, my contact there who visits friend when possible and keeps me informed by email, is retiring and moving away soon. I won't then know (unless carers make the effort to tell me, if indeed they know my details) if anything 'happens'.

Maggie that poor man, I think that somehow with the isolation of covid, there will be many unknown people like your friend who are going to slip through the cracks. sad that you are not able to get to see him but at least his niece can keep you informed.

At least if we get POA in place there is a chance that help is available.

BUT Duncan you have pointed out there are difficulties even with that in place. I don't think there is anything you could have done. your Mum was free to make her own friends before she needed POA. We can't choose others' friends for them. Maybe Val wasn't nasty just a very bossy type who, in her own weird way, loved your Mum and thought she was looking after her. (Or did she hope for inheritance?)

What a terrible time. Your poor mum was completely under the control of Val.

I had a friend who became under the control of a man she had met. During covid her very mild dementia became worse and once I was able to visit I became really concerned. Someone had reported her to the memory clinic I was able to contact them and explain that the children had’t been informed and the clinic were so relieved to have contact with family. Eventually, with my prodding and their POA they were able to spot that he had been getting money from here. Well so could I, she often offered to pay me for the little things I did for her. But I was her friend, which the man friend denied. He couldn’t really argue when I told him how long I had known her and his long all her other friends had known her.

Hi Nameless, no it doesn't sound right, but I didn't really explain myself very well.

My Mum moved to Wiltshire, 150 miles away, in 1990, and remarried. Sadly she was widowed within a month, which she knew was coming. She was fine until her late 80's when seemingly overnight she became very old and very vulnerable. There were 2 separate powers of attorney, 1 for health and 1 for financial matters etc. But she had a friend, Val, who was very pushy and domineering, I don't know if my Mum was in awe of her, but whatever Val said was what happened, no matter what. Many times I suggested to my Mum that Val was running every last bit of her life, but she wouldn't hear of it. I had a couple of disagreements with Val, nothing nasty but I told her some home truths. As soon as my Mum got wind of it she was on the phone telling me how wonderful Val was and how could I possibly think any different.

Then she did the Powers of Attorney, to me, Val, and to Val's husband - who was a totally different nature to Val. But when she had a fall in her kitchen she was taken to hospital, and Val told her that she needed to move to a Care Home. She didn't want to, she wanted to go home. So I said "Just for once ignore Val and do what you want to do. If you want to go home, then go home, there's plenty of help available". She replied along the lines of "Ah but Val says this and Val says that and Val is wonderful and Val is always right about everything" so I had to concede defeat.

The care home she ended up in was horrible, but Val told her it was a good one so that was the end of that conversation. But the tv she was paying for didn't work, and she was confined to her room for weeks due to covid precautions. So I leaned on the home and said they had to get her a tv that she was paying for so she's not just staring into space all day. I said I had Power of Attorney so was in a position to force the issue. They said "it's being dealt with, her friend Val is bringing one in". So I complained to them that it wasn't down to Val as my Mum was paying them, and in any case they should be providing her with one in the meantime. Then my Mum rang up, moaning that I had been interfering when her precious Val was already dealing with it. I said she had given me Power of Attorney to look after her interests and that is what I was doing. She wasn't having that, poor Val won't like it. A month she was confined to her room with no tv and I couldn't do a thing about it.

Then I had a letter from her solicitor asking if I wanted to continue with the Power of Attorney. I said yes. Another phone call from my Mum - why did I say yes instead of leaving everything to Val? So I said why bother giving me Power of Attorney when clearly she doesn't want me involved in anything.

OK that's a hell of a ramble, I was only going to write a couple of lines. But the point I am trying to make is that a Power of Attorney can be a Godsend, but also it can be a complete waste of time and give a false sense of security. I just want people to have their eyes open to the possible downsides before they go ahead with one.

Admittedly, most people aren't nearly as difficult as my Mum was!

It's very difficult.
I used to regularly go for trips in his car with an old friend at weekends.
Then covid struck.
So for about 2 years we didn't go on these little trips.
I phoned him every evening (we both live alone - he's 6 years older than me) just to make sure he was okay.
His brother got dementia, and died about 3 years ago.

After covid, we went on one trip - and something wasn't right. I couldn't put my finger on it.
I still phoned him every evening, but no more trips out were suggested.
I'd let him know if I wasn't here, so I wouldn't be phoning him, but I'd come back to messages,

Then he started talking about things I knew he hadn't done - like visiting my sister, or going to the library - where, as it happens, my sister in law is a volunteer.
When my sister in law phoned me, I asked her if he'd been to the library - he hadn't.

Fortunately, I knew his only living relative - his niece - who he claimed he didn't like, and lives a few miles from him - and contacted her.
This was when i found out, she'd regularly go to his local Tesco at 4pm - his usual time for going there - just to make sure he was okay, but knew he avoided her.

She took the bull by the horns, and went to his flat to his see him - he was (weirdly) extremely friendly towards her - and, like me, she thinks there is something 'wrong'. He is willingly taken to specialists, who are assessing him.

My sister contacted an old friend of his, who went to visit him - he also thinks something's not right. This friend was told a tale of me and my sister organising a race!

I haven't phoned him since his niece contacted him - this is now a different 'period' in his life - and he hasn't phoned me - he has my number - but he has phoned my sister, with a story about his car wheel falling off.

His niece - who is lovely - has cleaned up his flat, and arranged for various tests etc to be done. She now gets his shopping, so he doesn't drive his car, and phones me with updates.

I think we all know what the prognosis will be, but what would have happened if his niece was still living abroad? I can't get down there, I don't drive, and have no 'authority' as I'm not a relative.
He would have been alone in his flat - not even on a bus route.

Been moving the computer today so not been around to reply, sorry.

Thanks everyone, lots to think about. I might speak to her tomorrow or this next week.

When a family member showed early signs of dementia, but could still make clear judgements, she decided to talk to a solicitor about POA and was asked to nominate someone else, who she felt would be someone she was sure would act and speak up for her, so that the Power was only invoked, when the time was right.
I was that person and had to sign forms from her solicitor recording this fact.
When the situation deteriorated and it was time for the 2 sons to be granted POA, the solicitor again wrote to me asking if I had any objections and was invited to give reasons. Only when I agreed was the Power granted.
A good solicitor will look out for the best interests of their client, but the client has to be willing in the first place.....

I know how elderly people can sometimes be fiercly independant. When my mother became less able to manage day to day tasks, but wanted to stay in her bungalow, social services explained to me that they couldn't put in any help, while Mum had full mental capacity to decide. As I lived about 150 miles away, I felt I couldn't come home and leave the situation, so a heart to heart conversation resulted in Mum being willing to try a carer for a while.
Mum soon befriended her, looked forward to her visits and we were so grateful that this enabled Mum to spend many more happy years in her own home.

Rose
I think if the lady is bed bound, this would soon develop into a medical problem of health issues eg. bed sores and personal hygiene and so that might have to be the overall consideration.

To take up Duncan's point.
People 'in authority' can make strange decisions.
Mother-in-law lived in Hampshire and we visited frequently and were on the list of primary contacts for her telephone call helpline. We were contacted to tell us if a call had been activated, although friends who lived local were often the ones who called round if it was a minor issue.
All went well until one day, M in L's neighbour phoned to ask after her, as she'd seen an ambulance at the house. We knew nothing about this, nor did her friends and when we phoned the call company, we were quoted Data protection issues wouldn't allow them to tell us anything. Feeling sad that she was probably somewhere rather worried and frightened, we had to guess where she might have been taken and rang a hospital Fortunately, as her only relatives in UK, she had nominated me as next of kin, so we were able to get information and go to visit her.

OH and I both made wills years ago, and took out funeral plans. We also did POAs, which in Scotland are much less of a palaver than in England. We did them ourselves so it was very cheap and took about a couple of months. The main cost was the actual POA and a fee for the doctor, who had to certify that we were both fully compos mentis. As he lived next door and knew us both, the time was spent chatting about local goings-on!!

OH's cousin, in England, did one for her mother when she began to get dementia and it required a solicitor, a court appearance and a lot of money.

Hubby did a power of attorney for finances whilst he was considered still mentally capable of making that decision

This was because we had separate bank accounts

He had Alzheimer’s and Lewy body dementia and it was early in his diagnosis

When he was hospitalised in 2015 with sepsis it gave the Lewy body a big push and he became bedbound and unable to care for himself at all .couldn’t even sit up unaided

He was in hospital for ten weeks all together whilst I was trying to get him home ,

In one meeting with a snotty social worker I was rudely told because I didn’t have power of attorney for his health then if SHE decided he would go in a home then neither myself of any family had any say in the matter

My response was then you will kill him because it was his absolute dread to go into a home and indeed I had promised him that it wouldn’t happen all the while I was able to look after him

We did get him home ,with carers coming in 4 times a day but sadly he came home with a chest infection and passed away 3 weeks later


But my point is that family have no say over care if there’s no power of attorney in place

Duncan, that sounds wrong. You had a legal right to have a say - as her next of kin And holding her POA. I am assuming you had the newer one that has a section for health not the old Lasting POA.

I have POAs in place since T died but it did take a long time (I have two covering both), they have to be signed and dated in a particular order and witnessed also in a particular order. we lost count of the number of times the forms went back and forward for correcting and not always errors by us. But it is comforting to have then in place.

My Mum was the same about death and wills rose, she never did make a will. as it happened she pre-deceased my Dad (when they were both 85) so it just went to him and he did make a will.

Power of Attorney is an option, but do discuss the reasons for it with your friend, and with a solicitor. I had a Power of Attorney for my Mum but the care home took no notice of anything I said because her next door neighbour had already decided everything, so I literally might as well not have had it.