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Hi Folks,

I am trying to locate relatives and connections to my Great-Great Grandfather Rowland Curtis B: c1856 in Chantry, Somerset.

His father being William Curtis (B:c 1822 Wiltshire) & Caroline (B:c1822 in Witham Friary, Somerset)

Rowland is believed to have had 7 other siblings including Ellen, Emily,Fanny, Agnes, Sidney, Walter & Harriet.

We are unsure of Caroline's maiden name at this stage so any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Rowland married Mary Curtis (b:c1851in PONTYPRIDD Mid Glamorgan Wales - again we are unsure of Mary's maiden name) and they proceeded to have 6 children William Herbert, Walter, Lilian,Leonard, Harry & Arthur. It is known that William, Harry & Walter were also born in PONTYPRIDD Mid Glamorgan Wales. Lilian & Leonard were born in Stratford Bow, East London and Arthur was born in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.

All help would be greatly appreciated :o)

Hi Jessica,

Just posting the 1861 census for the family:

Name: Agnes C Curtis
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Caroline
Gender: Female
Where born: Witham, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: Whatley
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: Frome
Sub-registration district: Nunney
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
Agnes C Curtis 9 b Witham
Caroline Curtis 39 b Witham
Ellen A Curtis 15 b Warminster, Wilts
Fanny Curtis 11 b Warminster, Wilts
Harriet L Curtis 1 b Whatley
Rowland Curtis 5 b Whatley
Sidney Curtis 4 b Whatley
Walter Curtis 7 b Whatley
William Curtis 40 b Horningsham Wilts

- and 1851:
Name: Caroline Curtis
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Witham Friary, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: Witham Friary
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration district: Frome
Sub-registration district: Nunney
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members:
Name Age
Caroline Curtis 29
Ellen Curtis 5 b Warminster
Emily Curtis 3 b Warminster
Fanny Curtis 2 b Warminster
William Curtis 30 b Warmingsham

William Curtis m Caroline Ashford in Frome in Apr-Jun 1845?

this one is a possible:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about William Curtis
Name: William Curtis to Caroline Ashford
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Frome
County: Somerset
Volume: 10
Page: 667

A possible for Caroline in 1841 on the basis that 19 year olds had their age rounded down to 15?

Name: Caroline Ashford
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Somerset, England

Civil Parish: Rodden
Hundred: Frome
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

View Image

Registration district: Frome
Sub-registration district: Frome
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Abraham 40
Caroline Ashford 15
John Collins 15
Emma Druse 15
Sarah Eyles 30
Thos Gunningham 30
John Holbrook 15

Hi Lew - I'll have to leave it at that for this evening - hope Jessica comes back to the thread.

Wow - Thank you very much :o)

So we think Caroline Ashford is my relatives name.....

Hi Jessica,

It's not a definite that she is an Ashford, but it is the best fit by date and place - there doesn't seem to be a suitable Warminster marriage. Have you looked at any of the other candidates? Lew and I came up with the suggestion independently, but of course Caroline may have been married before.

The birth certificate of any of the children ought to gave you her maiden name - £7 from GRO (references for ordering are available on Free BMD). Have you bought a birth certificate? Also the marriage certificate from the references that Lew found should specify whether Caroline had previously been married.

I'll see if I can get birth/marriage cert refs for Mary's maiden name.

All the best

Interestingly the first Curtis from Somerset listed in Wales in 1881 is another Agnes from Witcomb:

Name: Agnes M. Curtis
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Witcomb, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: Aberystruth
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street address: Chapel St
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Bedwellty
Sub-registration district: Aberystruth
ED, institution, or vessel: 12a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Agnes M. Curtis 11
Rosina Curtis 6
Valentine Curtis 33
John Davies 27
Sarah Davies 63
James Hill 28

Roland in West Ham and married by 1881?

Name: Roland Curtis
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary C.
Gender: Male
Where born: Chantre, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: Alma St 23

Occupation: Tailor

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Lilian Curtis b Stratford Essex
Mary C. Curtis 27 b S Wales P'pridd
Roland Curtis 25 b Somst Chantry
Walter Curtis 4 b S Wales P'pridd

This may be Walter's birth registration:

Name: Walter Stanley Curtis
Year of Registration: 1877
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 396

I can't turn up a Harry/Henry birth registration amongst the 33 Curtis registrations in Pontypridd between 1861 and 1881 - oh!, I see, he is younger - only William Herbert ought to turn up in this time frame:

Name: William Herbert Curtis
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 347 .

So the marriage should be early 1870s

(What happened to William Herbert?)

- just checking back to see if Rowland had any other names:

Name: Rowland Curtis
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Frome
County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 501

- whereas Sidney may be Sidney Charles?

Name: Sidney Charles Curtis
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Frome
County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 590

Only posting this as being the only Rowland or Roland Curtis marriage between 1866 and 1876:

Name: William Rowland Curtis
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 123

(no Mary C amongst the brides)

Nope, marriage not obvious.

I'd be inclined to buy the birth certificate of Walter (see above). Alternatively, you might be able to locate William Herbert with maternal relatives unless he has died, or find other Curtis' in Wales(?), or see the family back in Pontypridd in 1891 or 1901?

I'll check back later to see if anyone else has been able to help.

Hi Jessica,

I've searched around a little more. Looking simply for marriages of Rowland Curtis in England and Wales gives ten possibilities.

The earliest is the marriage above; and I see that Rowland's stepmother, although having her children in Somerset, married Rowland's father in Kensington (Oct-Dec 1868) and was born in Marylebone, so a London connection is possible.

There is also an 1879 marriage in Warminster - haven't checked that one out yet. [Ed: no, this is likely to be the son of Geo and Martha b Warminster 1861, married to Sarah Ann]

The 1882 marriage, though, looks like the one to match your family. It is in West Ham (before the family moved to Cheltenham) and Mary is Mary E on both 1891 and 1901 census returns. She does seem to be a little older than Rowland though. Had either she or Rowland been married before?

OK, I'm happier about the Reynolds maiden name now.

William definitely not in West Ham in 1881; however, there is a Willie Curtis of the right age in Pontypridd registration district with his Reynold grandparents.

Name: Willie Curtis
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwonno, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Llantwit Vairdre
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: 8 Tramroad
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Llantrisant
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Willie Curtis 6
Margaret Reynolds 18
Mary Reynolds 53
William Reynolds 52

Will check back later to see whether its wrong!

Wow - thank you so much for all your help.

We have been told a story that Rowland had been married before and that my G grandfather Leonard ran away to live in Birmingham as he didn't like his step mother.

Now according to the 1891 census leonard is still living with his parents in Cheltenham however by 1901 he was living in Birmingham (I have found him on the 1901 census). So there may be truth in this tale?

However having just re-read your info. You say that you think that Rowland had a step mother then - so was Caroline Ashford Rowlands mother then? Or was she his step mum. Perhaps the step mother story was from this generation?

Going back Rowland and his welsh/london/cheltenham triangle - in the 1881 census Rowland and Mary E or C? are living in westham, London. Now according to the census only Rowland, Mary C, Lilian and Walter are living there. William although he is listed on the 1891 census as being the eldest he is in fact not at this property.

Mary E & Mary C seem to be the same person as the 2 birth places tally up. But what happened to William - he can't have been in service as he was only 5. So that would make sense if he had been with a grand parent.

Your right!

William between the 1861 and 1871 census married an Agnes L and they proceeded to have another child Christopher in 1871.

So perhaps it was Rowland that ran away?? who knows!

One thing that seems to be certain is that Agnes L brings with her tailoring part to the family tail as my GG Grandfather is listed as being a tailors apprentice. Now it may be a coincidence but Agnes is still alive in 1901 and she is listed as having a border and living of her own means. The borders occupation is listed as a tailors apprentice - so she must have some connection with tailoring?

Thank you so much for all your help :o)

Hi Jessica

This is fascinating - I have an ancestor who left his family in Wiltshire and set up his own business in London as a tailor. My grandmother remembers the business in the 1920s - she said they sat crosslegged on the table, like the illustration in Beatrix Potter's "Tale of Gloucester".

I wonder who Rowland was apprenticed to? Is there anyone else in Nunney from London in the tailoring business?

(Btw, I can't find an Agnes Louisa Humphries - I wonder if she was a widow? Birth registrations are no help - it looks like she was born in 1835).

[Ed: there is a possible Agnes Humphr*s as a servant in Pusey in Berks in 1851 (b Marylebone) and another in Paddington in 1861 (lady's maid) - but neither of those are connected to tailoring households]