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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 17:29

yes Fairthorn very possible indeed

I was even looking at Frankensteins !

I have been searching using frank* as the surname but even that may be an anglicization of something else :-)


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 17:52

we have Ruth Davis in 1901 with children Rachel Esther and Eva

in 1911 there are these children

FRANK, Julia Daughter Single F 19 1892 Felling Hand Tailoress Spitalfields London
FRANK, John Son Single M 17 1894 Wood Carver Apprentice London Bethnal Green
FRANK, Solomon Son M 15 1896 Pianoforte Maker Apprentice London Bethnal Green
FRANK, Rebecca Daughter F 12 1899 London Bethnal Green
FRANK, Zeta Daughter F 12 1899 London Bethnal Green

who must be children of Joseph and be somewhere in 1901 ....... !!

but ... searching for the children by given name and place of birth and father Joseph ... not that I can find :-S


jax Report 14 Jul 2011 18:04

Could not find any Zeta's that would fit either


Name: Julia Joseph
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Frank Joseph
Mother's name: Fanny Joseph
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: Liberty of Old Artillery Ground
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Spital Square
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Spitalfields
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 91
Piece: 300
Folio: 37
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Frank Joseph 30
Fanny Joseph 30
Julia Joseph 8
Johnny Joseph 6
Soloman Joseph 4
Beckey Joseph 1

Russian Tailor

So where is Zeta??


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 18:10

jax that is perfect

if the head of household's name was accidentally reversed

on the image all the others are 'ditto' to the surname

the children match absolutely perfectly except for the missing Zeta who might really have been slightly younger than it says in the 1911

'Frank Joseph' is a mantle maker ( baster ) ( with the notation tailor ) born in Poland, Fanny is born in Poland, the others are all born in London


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 18:12


Deaths Sep 1904
JOSEPH Fanny 33 Whitechapel 1c 159


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 18:15

!! here I was thinking people had looked at the image :-)

what do you think the Zeta should say ?

and a David ... we are getting very warm !


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 18:19

I have a new Leah possibility :-)

Births Sep 1910
JOSEPH Leah Bethnal G. 1c 164

but that would also possibly match with

Births Jun 1907
Joseph Daniel Mile End 1c 423

but could 'Zeta' possibly be Leah ?

for example

Births Jun 1900
Joseph Leah Whitechapel 1c 296
Births Dec 1900
Joseph Leah Whitechapel. 1c 249

only one of them is in the 1901 census


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 18:31

are we thinking that Lilian may have reversed her father's name as part of the deception about her age ( identity ? ) when she married ?

Births Dec 1891
JOSEPH Julia Whitechapel 1c 299

Births Mar 1894
Joseph John Sydney D Whitechapel 1c 329

Births Dec 1895
Joseph Solomon Harris Whitechapel 1c 242

but that would make the 'Frank' surname in the 1911 a problem ... unless it had been reversed there ...


jax Report 14 Jul 2011 18:36

I have come accross one like this before where the fathers first name was Isaac in 1901 but the families surname was Isaacs in 1911



chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 18:39

it actually makes more sense as Joseph Frank ( at least or especially maybe if 'Frank' were an anglicisation ) than as Frank Joseph I would think, for a Jewish immigrant from eastern Europe ... I don't think 'Frank' was a particularly common first name in that community ... ?

perhaps the mistake was first made on a record when they entered the country ........


jax Report 14 Jul 2011 18:45


Births Dec 1909 (>99%)

JOSEPH Yetta Whitechapel 1c 228

maybe not??


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 19:01

actually Yetta is quite common in the Jewish community :-)

Name: Yetta Joseph
Spouse name: Isaac Harris
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1932
Registration district: London City
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 89



jax Report 14 Jul 2011 19:07

Name: Yetta Harris
Birth Date: 12 Jun 1910
Date of Registration: Jul 2005
Age at Death: 95
Registration district: Camden
Inferred County: London
Register number: D61A
District and Subdistrict: 250/1D
Entry number: 29


chrissiex Report 14 Jul 2011 19:13

going back to my Leah Joseph theory for Lilian

1911 census

FRANK LEAH 1910 9 MONTHS Bethnal Green London

this would give a birthdate of June 1910

Births Sep 1910 ... June birth registered in July ?
JOSEPH Leah Bethnal G. 1c 164

Leah Joseph doesn't appear in the 1911 census and did not die before the census

oh ... Yetta who married Harris doesn't look like the right one for that birth then, unless her d o b on the death is incorrect


jax Report 14 Jul 2011 19:14

Name: David Joseph
Birth Date: abt 1906
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1954
Age at Death: 48
Registration district: Paddington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 163


LisaCam68 Report 14 Jul 2011 21:14

The Leah Frank does seem interesting as it does say on my nan's death certificate that she was born in Bethnal Green. But how would I match it to her though? Or should I try and trace the other family members and see if I get a lead from them?


jax Report 14 Jul 2011 21:29

You can risk purchasing the birth cert to see if it has the same date as you have

You did notice that it is the birth cert of Leah Joseph you would need?



LisaCam68 Report 14 Jul 2011 23:49

ok thanks!


jax Report 15 Jul 2011 00:06

I dont know if you have purchased a cert before but use this site


and please come back and add to this thread the outcome good or bad

good luck



LisaCam68 Report 15 Jul 2011 00:28

I will do thanks again!