Find Living Relatives

Am trying to help a lady in America. She is trying to find information about her biological grandmother. Her grandmother gave birth to a son who was adopted. She has information about the adoptive parents who are now passed on. She has her father's baptism record but the name of his mother has been scrubbed out. I've found his original birth record and am possibly in the process of sending off for a copy. Does anyone know if the original birth certificate would contain the mother's name or would it just be a birth certificate with her father's details on? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Hope I'm making sense and not confusing anyone.

Kind regards

Kathryn

I'm sure that a birth certificate would have the mother's name. It's only the father's name that might not be there.

it will have both parents names if they were together .ie married, the dads name too if he acknowledged paternity if they werent .

It will only have the mums name on it if the child was illegitimate and the dad wasnt around OR it the mum was married but her hubby wasnt the father .

Thank you Margee for replying to my thread. Much appreciated.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Hi Shirley. Thank you for your reply. I just get so confused with these issues regarding adoption. I just thought that if this chap was adopted then his original birth certificate wouldn't have all the details on. Obviously a person has to know the mother's surname and exact date of birth to find the original birth cert but still thought that it wouldn't contain all facts. He doesn't know who the birth father was and neither does the daughter ie the lady in America so there is a good chance his name isn't on the cert. It will be a start though if the mother's name is on it. Thanks again.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Hi Kathryn, definitely get that birth certificate.

If the mother's name isn't Mary Smith, you may well be able to identify her own birth and hopefully marriage - and maybe find that she had other children.

different places have different laws about adoptees' access to records so that's probably one reason you are confused ... in England the law now is that adoptees can access their full original birth certificates

it sounds as if your friend's father is still living, but likely his mother would be deceased now?

if that's the case, say if he was born before 1950 (so his mother would likely have been born 1930 or earlier), we could help some here with the searches if they like once you have the birth certificate.

if the dad is still living (or if he has a son) they might want to consider DNA testing as a way of finding his paternal family. It only works for sons of sons of sons. And it only works if someone with the same family has tested with the same company (or added their results to that company's database) ... but the databases are growing constantly and you never know when someone might join and match, even years from now.

Of my own two families, I found that someone with whom I share a paternal great-great-grandfather whom I had already 'met' through contact via census record notes at Ancestry is a 100% perfect YDNA match with my brother. That didn't tell me anything new about ancestry, but it did confirm that our families are both 'legitimately' descended from the same person ... which can be good to know before you go tracing back another half-dozen generations :-)

on the other side, my male relation in my mum's family has no match at all among hundreds of men with the very common surname we thought was her family's 'real' name ... but a close match with a surname that is not known to be in our tree except possibly in a maternal ancestor in that paternal line from a marriage around 1800 -- but the families are from 10 miles apart in Cornwall so it seems indisputable that we have a common ancestor likely sometime around 1600. It was just my huge enormously good luck that the man's daughter decided to try the testing a few months before I did ... and only a few months before her father died.

if your friend got a match of some sort, it would be a clue to how to look for her dad's father ... and it's fun :-) Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) is the place to try it (never Ancestry!)

Morning Joanne, thank you so much for posting on my thread. Am going to send off for the certificate and see what it comes back with. Am just hoping and praying that it does give the mother's full name. Do you think it will make any difference that she gave birth at a mother and baby home, she was only about 15 at the time? It's just a god send that we have a date of birth, the mother's surname and also the father's first two names. I think otherwise it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

If the birth certificate yields further information then I may well post on here again as people are so kind in their help.

Kind regards


Kathryn

When you order the certificate, only include the information as shown on the index. If you add anything else and it doesn't match with the certificate, they won't issue it!

Hopefully you are going to the source and not using an intermediary such as Ancestry. They add in their profit but still have to order from GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Unless the father was present when the birth was registered (unlikely) only the mother's name will be given. Her 'usual address' is likley to be the Mother and Baby home.

If you scroll down on this link to GRO FAQ, there is an example of a pre 1969 certficate
http://tinyurl.com/ob9pwk8

Q1. What information will I see on a certificate?
The details contained on a full birth certificate include:

Name, date and place of birth.
Father's name >>>(if given at time of registration)<<<, place of birth and occupation.
Mother's name, place of birth, maiden surname and, after 1984, occupation.
*****(Registrations made before 1969 do not include details of the parents' place of birth and mother's occupation.) *****

Hi all. Have just ordered the Certificate via the General Register Office. I just gave the chaps name, year of birth and quarter together with the District. As before hopefully it will yield the mothers full name if nothing else as I've been informed that she was 15 at the time. Who knows it may lead to yielding furthest information. Thank you everyone for time and help.

Kind regards

Kathryn

It certainly ought to give the forename(s) she was known by.
Do take into consideration that she may have been sent 'out of area' to preserve her reputation.

Lets hope for his sake that it is an unusual combination of names!

Hiya, will let you all know once the Cert is received if that's okay? The Home she was in was out in the countryside so I doubt if she would have been living nearby.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Morning all, I have now received the Birth Certificate and am now trying to trace the ladies biological grandmother.

Her name is Sarah Mary Margaret Sutton. She was born in 1934 in Lambeth to Bernard and Johanna Sutton. Johanna's maiden name was Lawlor. I have found that Sarah married an Edward G Lloyd in 1965 in Lambeth. I don't know anything about Edward and am contemplating sending off for the Marriage Cert. Am wondering please if anyone could find Sarah and Edward on an Electoral Roll. I haven't found a death for Sarah as it may well be she is still alive. She would be around 81 years old now. As ever any help would be much appreciated.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Marriages Mar 1930
Lawlor Johanna Sutton Marylebone 1a 1014
Sutton Bernard Lawlor Marylebone. 1a 1014

Although there are London Historical ER on Ancestry, they only go up to 1965 which would have been compiled late 1964 (we've just received our form for 2016)

There's no obvious candidate for Sarah M M Lloyd or Sutton. She would have been on the cusp of being eligible (21)

192.com can be used for 2002-current. Again, no Sarah M M Lloyd. Even if she opted out of the commercial register, there is a good chance she'd have shown up on 2002 when that option first happened.

Unless someone can offer a different record (like a second marriage) you might have to buy the MC

Thank you Shirley for that information. Am just hoping someone might have access to the later Electoral Rolls and are able to trace Sarah and Edward. I know it's a long shot but at least we know Sarah's birth year so this would help to go by.

Once again thanks for your help/

Kindest

Kathryn

Thank you DetEcTive for your help and information. Dam, excuse me. I will look for another marriage but will certainly now send off for the marriage to Edward. Your help and everyone else's is, as always, much appreciated.

Kindest

Kathryn

I too looked for them on the electoral rolls but none showed

Looked too for possible deaths for her parents but without knowing their birth years it wasn't possible to identify the right people

Electoral roll
Name: Bernard Sutton
Year: 1933
County or Borough: Camden
Address 18 mercer chambers ,castle street

With Johanna Sutton

Thank you again Shirley. I have now ordered the marriage cert for Sarah and Edward, at least that'll hopefully give Edward's age so that would be something to go on. I am determined as ever but sorry if I'm being a pest. Will update once I've received the marriage cert but also if I find anything else in the meantime.

Kindest

Kathryn

it's annoying that there were actually two Sutton-Lawlor marriages in London in 1930!

so the birth in Paddington just prior to the marriage most likely belongs to that other marriage

there is a birth in 1931 in Hammersmith, oddly not registered until 1933 (and no apparent 1931 registration under a different surname), that might be thought to be to your Sutton-Lawlor marriage since the name is the same as the husband's

two people appear to have that person in their family tree at this website

aha

one of those people also has in their tree

Joanna Lawlor 1905 Bagnestown, Ireland

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/tree/results/lawlor/joanna?memberkey=0&yearofbirth=1900&yearofbirthrange=10

I think you want to contact that person :-)