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John, again, I wouldn't expect births from any later marriage ... Ivyline was born in 1929 and her second marriage was 1974 so she was 45, last birth for first marriage was 1966

as ArgyllGran says, the births can easily be found at freebmd, but finding the people is another matter

the two youngest children were born in Wakefield

there is a 1978 marriage in Wakefield that could be the 1960 child (unusual spelling of given name)

looking in Wakefield there are other possible matching marriages, for instance 1986 for the 1964 child (less common given name than some)

Dave, search here

http://www.searchelectoralroll.co.uk/

for the name of the 1960 child (he is last one in the list of results, shown in Wakefield)

192.com shows that address to be valid to 2016, and the children in the household match the children of the 1978 marriage (that we can't be certain is him but certainly seems to be)

John, I'm not sure if you're using freebmd.org.uk or not.
If not, you should - you can easily find birth records of children from Ivyline's first marriage, as her maiden surname was so unusual.

However, it's much harder (if not impossible) to find any later records for them, as Taylor isn't an unusual name.

For the son who was born in 1953, there's a possible marriage in Lower Agbrigg in 1973. I don't see any children from that marriage.

1942 births deleted from earlier post.

hi yes the granddaughter I am talking to is from johns marriage to jean Hepworth do you have any details of any children ivyline celia Thorpe had in her previous marraiges thanks dave

Dave there wouldn't be any children from the 1988 marriage, as the bride would have been nearly 60 :-)

possibly they lived together before marriage, but her most recent previous marriage was in 1975 when she was nearly 45

her surname is very uncommon ... so in fact I did check for children from all the marriages, and only the first one resulted in children

this is all why I'm wondering why the people who say 'not your JMA' could not provide some more info about him, e.g. was he born in the UK or the US ...

but if I'm following, the granddaughter you're talking with must be a child of one of the children of the first marriage to Hepworth, and does not know a lot about him except the story of born in Scotland and lived in children's homes ... and that is a 100% match with your John, is it not?


ArgyllGran I'm going to pitch my privacy fit again ... the two people born in 1942 you posted above are not related to this situation so it isn't fair to publish their personal info here ... we can see the details at freebmd


AnninCardiff if you are reading ... on page one you posted several birth/marriage/death records that are not related to the John in this thread ... as Detective asked in another thread, could you delete those posts so the thread is shorter and easier to follow? thanks

thank you will have a think about it dave

That would depend on how sure you are that he's not your John.
If you're quite sure he's not, then there's no point in sending for them.

But if you think there's a chance that they may show father's name as David, rather than John, then . . . .
. . . . well, it's up to you!

If the Wakefield one was born in USA, then he's definitely not your John, of course.
But if he was born in UK, it's an unusual name, and your John's birth is the only one we can find which specifically says Mee.

There are a couple of John M Abbott births in 1942, where we don't know what the M stood for.

BUT neither of these would fit a birth in April - assuming the DOB on the 1991 death record is correct, which it may well not be - as has already been said, details on a death cert depend on how accurate the informant's information is.

Sorry! Not much help!
Only you can say if it's worth it to you to spend money on certs which may turn out to be for the wrong person.

yes the name MEE is on the marriage cert it is the john who married jean as granddaughter confirmed this would it be worth to send for death cert or his marriage cert from his second wife

Yes, that's why we thought they might be the same person - and I'm still attracted to that idea, though with no proof whatsoever.

The one who married in 1966 would have had to produce a birth cert when he married Jean, so no chance that he was perhaps inventing a more glamorous father for himself, or was confused as to his DOB !!

Does the 1966 marriage cert give his full middle name as Mee, or is it just the initial? Perhaps it stands for something else?

Clutching at straws here!

Have you sent for the 1991 death cert? If so, what information is on that?
Is it at all possible that the John Mee who died in Wakefield is not the John who married Jean in Wakefield ???

hi just trying to work out where he got the middle name MEE from as this was Edinburgh johns mothers maiden name

Hi do I try to contact any children from JMA 1942-1991 marriage to ivyline c Thorpe in 1988 thank you dave

this is just by the bye but whew

Births Sep 1929
Oxtoby Ivyline C Westwood Wakefield 9c 20

Marriages Dec 1948
Oxtoby Ivyline C Taylor Lower Agbrigg 2c 970

and it looks like 10 children to that marriage

Marriages Sep 1974
TAYLOR IVYLINE C LONG PONTEFRACT 5 1377

Marriages Dec 1975
LONG IVYLINE C THORPE PONTEFRACT 5 989

then to the 1942 JMA in 1988, then to Black after he died

I wonder whether any of her children would know anything of the 1942-1991 JMA

okay but the woman you are talking to is the granddaughter of the JMA who died in 1991 in Wakefield

and she says 'her grandfather said he was from Scotland and brought up in foster homes'

so this absolutely fits the JMA you are looking for, no?

but she is the daughter of a child of that JMA and his wife Jean Hepworth?

and I was thinking ... the other JMA was born in April 1942 ... the US didn't enter the war until 1942 ... so no US airmen were stationed in England in mid-1941 ...

so perhaps that JMA was born in the US

hi joonie the granddaughter I am talking to is JMA born 1942 remarried 1988 to ivyline celia Thorpe .the marriage cert I have got is of his first marriage to jean Hepworth on the 29 October 1966 stating his father was john a abbott pilot in the usaaf dave

okay having read your PM

the granddaughter you mention is the granddaughter of this 'other' John Mee Abbott, born 1942 died 1991 ... and he had a second marriage which is why his first family do not know much about him

or no, I'm confused again, 'she told me her grandfather said he was from Scotland and brought up in foster homes' so this is the granddaughter of the John Mee Abbott you are looking for, not the one who died in 1991

keep in mind when you explain things to us that we only know what you tell us and it's more confusing for us than for you!

if she is his granddaughter then she knows her own grandparents' marriage details no?

- edit - this marriage posted on page 1
Mary Mee married David Abbott in 1939 in Scotland

anyway the second wife of whoever the JMG whose certificate this is has a very unusual name

she remarried ... but is only on the electoral roll to 2005

yes, unfortunately ...

Name: Ivyline Cecilia Black
Birth Date: 31 Aug 1929
Date of Registration: Feb 2005
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register Number: B61A
District and Subdistrict: 099/1B
Entry Number: 294

if you can tell us which John Mee Abbott this relates to - the one you are looking for or the one 1942-1991 that the other people say is not yours - we can maybe find out more

but someone born 1940 (1942?) married a woman born 1929 ...

Hmmm -
there was a John M Abbott born in Cheshire in 1942 - but no way to know what the M was for, or who his father was, without buying the birth cert.

You don't want to waste money buying birth certs for all sorts of unrelated people!

It is possible, of course, that your Edinburgh John has never married, and is still alive, in which case there will be no online records for him.
Or the records only give his middle initial and not the full name.
If alive, he'll be 76.

searchelectoralroll.co.uk shows a John M Abbott, aged 76, living in Rushden, Northants, and 192.com shows that he's on the current ER. There's an Ann Abbott at the same address.
But whether or not he could be your John, I couldn't say.

"pilot USAAF" is the name of the father of the JMA who married in Wakefield?

okay that explains that maybe ... a war baby born 1942 who was registered in his mother's surname or took on a stepfather's name or something along that line

or he could have been born in the US himself

hi the name on the marriage of johns is john abbott and occupation is pilot USAAF there is a middle name but I cannot make it out but begins with the letter A dave

As JC has already asked you, what was the name given for the father of the Wakefield man, Dave?

We can't find a birth for another John Mee Abbott around that time.
It may be that his family don't have the correct information, for some reason.