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Regarding Stewart's first family, might there be a paticular reason why he changed his name?

No, I'm not aware of any particular reason as to why he changed his name, and that is part of the mystery!

H'mmm, interesting!

I have ordered the marriage certificate for Peter Underwood and Audrey Dyer, and I am advised that it will arrive by 29th March. In the meantime, my search for my father's first marriage goes on and I would welcome some advice as to where I should be looking please. I'm still a novice at this!

I would wait until the marriage certificate come to see if it provides any extra clues- whether it says divorced/ widowed/ marriage dissolved (or mentions any name change).

To change your first and surname implies to me that perhaps there was something in his past that he'd rather forget or that he did not wish to be found.

I don't see any marriages (in England or Wales) under his original name of Stewart Underwood Smith- However, there are possible previous marriages in the names Stewart Smith and Peter Underwood, which, once we know what the 1939 marriage certificate says, might be worth exploring. (Some of these marriages can probably be ruled out as the couples can be found on the 1939 census or, are still having children after 1939).

You said that your mother and Aunt would never talk about his 'other' family- yet you are certain there was another family and know that your father changed his name.- I just wonder how you knew these things if they were never spoken about?

I also wonder if there are any other snippets of information you can remember that might be useful? Perhaps how your parents met, or why they married in Southampton, or how your father came to be in Southampton? Had he been in Southampton long? Is it likely his 'other' family were in Sheffield or closer by?

I know it's a lot of questions, but sometimes the smallest titbit of information can help.

Please let us know the details of the marriage certificate- I think you have us all hooked!

My aunt would sometimes refer to Stewart's "other family" but never elaborated any further when I asked questions. In my younger days I wouldn't dare insist on answers; she would always say "best left in the past". Same with my mother:
Austin, from the 1939 register you picked up that they lived in Southampton with William and Elsie Botting. They must have moved in with them when they married. I was born in Winchester and after that they all moved and opened a tearoom business called 'The Golden Lantern'. After that we moved to 33 Liphook Road, Shottermill. Although the Bottings were not blood relatives, they were always Uncle Will and Auntie Elsie and as I was growing up they were part of our family. I guess my father was in Southampton because he worked for the railways and that is how he was connected to Will Botting. But I'm not sure where he was before that. Could have been Sheffield where his sister Irene was living when she was an artist teacher; they grew up in Yorkshire so it is likely that he was in that neck of the woods before Southampton, but he was also a naval officer during WW2 - I have photographs of him wearing his uniform. I've been racking my brains trying to remember any snippets of conversation I used to have with her where place names would have come up but it is a long time ago and nothing comes to mind.
It is very likely that there will be many records of Stewart Smith as opposed to Underwood Smith. I've also been in contact with several people who have various ancestors in common with me through the Courtenay family line and got as far as my 3 x great grandmother via the family tree of a lady who tells me this is also her 4 x great grandmother. I'm waiting to hear from her for further info down the line.
Watch this space!!
;-)

David- while you're waiting I thought this might be of interest. On the 1939 register for Courtenay Irene she's living with an Eliza Smith (dob 21 July 1861), I believe Eliza is her mother Lilie.

A few snippets from the newspapers:-

Sheffield Independent - Thursday 30 May 1935

KINGS THANKS FOR POEM SENT BY SHEFFIELD WOMAN

Mrs Lilie Smith of 97 Harcourt Road, Sheffield, who wrote a poem to commemorate the King's Silver Jubilee and sent it to the King has received an acknowledgement thanking her.
The reply reads:-
The Private Secretary is commanded to convey to Mrs Lilie Smith the King's thanks for her expression of loyalty and good wishes in connection with the Silver Jubilee of his Majesty's Accession.

Mrs Smith is a Cornish woman and has lived in Sheffield 7 or 8 years. She has written poems on a variety of subjects.
The following is her poem on the Jubilee:
25 years of glorious reign
25 years our trust assured,
The Heart of England's quietude
For love and loyalty is stirred.
We pay our most grateful homage
To England's noble King and Queen,
That they may forever dwell
In all the nation's hearts serene.
Long may they reign, we ever pray,
With health and happiness be blessed,
That their subjects high and low,
With loving peaceful hearts may rest.
God bless our gracious King and Queen,
Let England's voices ever blend
In earnest prayers to God,
That peace and joy their lives attend.
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Sheffield Daily Telegraph - Thursday 22 June 1939

DEATHS
SMITH- On June 20th at 99 Harcourt Road, Herbert, dearly loved husband of Lilie Smith. Interment. Crookes, 2.15. Service St John 1.15 Saturday.

Just having another looks at your father's military record- there are a few files for him on Find My Past.

The first is for Stewart Underwood Smith (2054). Occupation: Clerk
He must have lied about his age as he signs up 15th April 1915 with an apparent age of 19 years and 4 months. He is discharged medically unfit in 29th May of 1915.

He is then called up 22nd January 1917, using name Stewart Smith (649696)
giving his age as 18 years and 1 month, occupation- Clerk.

However within the file there is a medical report that was written in 1919 prior to his discharge. The report includes both 2054 and 649696 numbers (so we know they are the same man). It states he was first posted for duty in April 1915 and gives a current age of 25 (which matches the age on his first record). It then states that his former occupation was MUSIC HALL ARTIST.

His mother and sister were living in a house with a retired actor in 1939 (there is also a professional vocalist living next door)- so it seems plausible that Stewart mixed within these circles. Could Peter Underwood have been his stage name? Or perhaps changing his name was to distance himself from his former stint in the theatres?

All theories- but worth keeping in mind.
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Oh, and we can now discount the Anne Martha Underwood-Smith. She was married to Clifford Underwood and double barrelled her name when she remarried in 1958 to Charles J Smith.

Yes, Irene did live at 99 Harcourt Road until her mother's death. Not sure why it says Eliza Smith though. Her mother was Lilie Smith and Eliza was her grandmother's name (Eliza Courtenay James married to Samuel H James). No idea who the other people were though, and as for my father being a music hall artist, I have no idea about that either, but it seems highly unlikely. Could the records be for a different Stewart Smith, I wonder?
Interesting though? He lied about his age in 1915; could he have lied about his 2-week pilot training and being sent off to fight during WW1?
Are there any records for WW2? I have photos of him wearing a naval officer's uniform.
The piece in the newspaper about the poem states that Mrs Lilie Smith lived at 67 Harcourt Road. Is that a typo or is that where the next door neighbour singer lived?

Yes the newpaper article says 97 Harcourt Road- although I suspect it should be 99, as this is the address given for Herbert on his death in 1939.

(the vocalist, Robert Charlesworth, was at 101 Harcourt Road).
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I've double checked the military records and it clearly states both military numbers on the medical report (he injured his left foot in France, Sept 1918).- All the other documents concerning occupation do say 'clerk', so perhaps it was a mistake- hard to see how it happened though!

The records say 'clerk' and yet both my mother and my aunt (as, indeed, did Will Botting) used to refer to his having been active during both Wars as I mentioned above, yet never mentioned the foot injury in France. Curiouser and curiouser !!
Do you think there is a possibility that this might be another Stewart Smith who came from Sheffield?
I feel rather helpless but very thankful that you are doing all this research on my behalf. But you're obviously experts at this sort of thing and know exactly where to look, and I really do not have a clue! :-D

None of us are experts, but we enjoy a challenge!

The term clerk refers to his previous occupation before joining up (and not his duties within the war effort).

I don't know if this will help: Identifying marks were:
Tattoo on left forearm
Scar on left upper arm
Mole on chest (or possibly cheek)

Slight defect, but not sufficient to cause rejection:- Asthma

It also mentions invalided to UK due to aneamia 1919

Perhaps somebody else can look at the service records- they are on FMP- there is quite a bit to read through.

- Stewart Underwood Smith,

-Stewart Smith born Truro, Cornwall.

Also, it occurs to me - is it possible to obtain records of name change by deed poll? Where does one look for that?

http://www.theukdeedpolloffice.co.uk/knowledge-base/tracing-name-change.html

Thanks Gwyn

Austin Q - re I would wait until the marriage certificate come to see if it provides any extra clues- whether it says divorced/ widowed/ marriage dissolved (or mentions any name change).

I have now received my parents' marriage certificate. The marriage took place on 26th August 1939 at Southampton Registry Office (two months after his father died!). My father aged 39, mother 27, residence at time of marriage 45 Dimond Road, Southampton. It neither says 'divorced' nor 'widowed' - it says 'bachelor' !! So, it appears that there was no first marriage, and yet he had another family according to both my mother and my aunt - the plot thickens! How would I find him in a census prior to 1939?

Oh blow! so, this just raises more questions!

He didn't have to be married to father children previous to marrying your Mum.

However, I feel the name change must be part of this. Was he still legally married to someone else? Did he change his name to avoid being found by his previous family?

I need to have another think on this one.

Re any other census- there are no available census open after 1911 (which was posted on page one). Few electoral registers are online, but most are held at central libraries for the area/s you want. I have a feeling they are searchable by address and not name- which would make finding him very difficult, but perhaps someone else can clarify that.


Just a thought- is there anyone from the Bottling family that might have any details?

Does the marriage certificate give his father as Herbert Smith?

There were no marriages for Stewart U Smith, but looking at marriages for just Stewart Smith, there are surprisingly few (using Stewart not Stuart/ and without initials).

These are the only possibles I see:

Marriages Sep 1921
Farrow Elizabeth Smith Chesterfield 7b 1698
Smith Stewart Farrow Chesterfield 7b 1698

Marriages Mar 1923
Fox Susannah T Smith S.Shields 10a 1274
Smith Stewart Fox S.Shields 10a 1274
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For the 1923 marriage:

This is Susannah in 1939- she is listed as married but no husband with her:

Smith Household 38 Charlotte Street , South Shields C.B., Durham, England

Susanna Smith 01 Apr 1903 Female House Duties Married
Stella Smith 18 Jul 1923 Female Apprentice Hairdresser Single
Stewart Smith 25 Oct 1925 Male At School Single

Stella never married and died 1995 Newcastle upon Tyne

Stewart died in 1997 Newcastle upon Tyne and married Marion Murthwaite in 1958.

Susanna died (still surname Smith) in 1992 Newcastle Upon Tyne

Interestingly a family member (Sandra Smith- Stewart Jnr's daughter) has a tree for Susanna Fox and Stewart Smith on Ancestry- but she has no details(birth or death) listed for Stewart. It might be worth contacting her if you have access to Ancestry.
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The 1921 marriage is proving harder to follow. This is a possible daughter of Stewart Smith and Elizabeth Farrow, but I don't see any thing further definite for her:

Births Mar 1922
Smith Renée Farrow Chesterfield 7b 1546

Regarding the bachelor status............

This indeed may not mean that there was no previous marriage.

My friend has a great many certificates and we know for a fact, when signatures even matched, that some men stated 'bachelor' when it was quite obvious that there had been a previous marriage...or marriages.

They seemed to have stated 'bachelor' if they considered themselves with no wife and therefore free to marry.

This may, ..or may not.. have been the case for your family.