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TAYLOR,TOFT or OGDEN from the Oldham area?

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David

David Report 20 Sep 2020 15:57

Looking for relatives of my 'Auntie' MAY TAYLOR, 23/3/1921 ,died 4/1998.


Daughter of Edward TAYLOR 1900-1940 and Mona Taylor (nee TOFT) 1903-1953.

All lived in New Earth Street,Lees,Oldham until early 1950's. Possibly at least one sibling-Douglas Taylor.

May was estranged from the Taylors and became a much loved 'adopted' member of our Shaw/Smith family.
I would like to pass on her story to any of her interested family ,before we too pass on into genealogical history....... :-( :-S

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 Sep 2020 16:00

Look for her name in ‘Search all member trees’. If she is recorded, send a message to the tree owner

Unlikely in the extreme that anyone connected will happen to see your post
Hardly anybody uses these boards

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 Sep 2020 16:08

If you have the correct info for the mother, it’s unlikely that Douglas was her child - she’d have been 12 when he was born.

Can’t see ANY info on freebmd for Mona Toft born c1903, and that includes any possible marriage

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 Sep 2020 16:12

In 1939 Mona Taylor - married, DOB 24/12/1902 - was living at 60 New Earth street, Oldham with one other person - Janet Ogden , born 1873 - a widow.

No closed records - which one would expect to find if she had children

There is a birth for Mona Ogden to fit the info re: Mona Taylor

Mona Ogden married Edward Taylor in 1930

David

David Report 20 Sep 2020 16:14

Thank You ErikaH. Shame no-one uses these boards much then.....
I will try your suggestion but I suspect people don't know she ever existed or completely forgotten about for those 50 or so years so I don't hold out much hope.

I just wanted any living relatives or their descendants to know she existed and had a life.......

Thank you once more.

David

David Report 20 Sep 2020 16:20

Hi again.Just seen your updates.
I know Auntie May always said she had a brother Dougie though.
I was aware that the widow Ogden lived in Lees too,but as you will know so many unconnected people lived at any one address in those times. And there was so much illegitimacy.
I do know May's parents are as stated as I visited thir grave with her in Lees Cemy.about 1960.
Regards David

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 Sep 2020 16:31

Do you have her birth cert?

You can easily check what I’ve said by looking at freebmd

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 Sep 2020 16:35

Mona Taylor was Janet Ogden’s daughter - see 1911 census, where they are at the same address as 1939

David

David Report 20 Sep 2020 16:59

Erika. Can I just ask you about why you say Douglas can not have been a sibling of Auntie May as Mona would have been only 12 when he was born I don't know anything about Douglas so did you find him and what year was he born.

Looks like Mona might have had May illegitimately in 1921 when she was 18/19.

Wonder if Janet Ogden had a son who 'married' Mona and had May and who could have been May's real father,and not Edward Taylor as he and Mona didn't marry until 1930 as you told me,when May would be 9.. Mona and Edward Taylor might then have had other kids including a Douglas?

Then again this widow Ogden sounds well suspicious ;-) !
Who knows she might well be May's real mother as she would be 48 when she had her- rare at that age butjust possible in those days?
So much conjecture.....I'm going to give it a rest for a while now :-D
Thanks for replying.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 Sep 2020 17:14

Do you know about the website freebmd?

Use it to look for info.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 Sep 2020 19:37

As Erika said - Mona would only have been 12 when this Douglas below was born.

Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Taylor Douglas (mms Toft) Oldham 8d 954




EDIT:
He's likely the child of this couple:

Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
TAYLOR John William Oldham 8d 1047
TOFT Charlotte Ann Oldham 8d 1047

John William Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: John William Taylor
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 24
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1881
Marriage Date: 10 Jun 1905
Marriage Place: Oldham, St Stephen and All Martyrs, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: S Stephen, Oldham
Father: Timothy Taylor
Spouse: Charlotte Ann Toft
Reference Number: L228
Archive Roll: 633



Douglas Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Douglas Taylor
Age: 0
Birth Date: 2 Aug 1915
Baptism Date: 19 Sep 1915
Baptism Place: Oldham, St Stephen and All Martyrs, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: S Stephen, Oldham
Father: John William Taylor
Mother: Charlotte Ann Taylor
Reference Number: L228
Item Number: 4
Archive Roll: 633

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 Sep 2020 20:43


Thinking about the Taylor/Toft couple above , who had the son Douglas in 1915 -

this is the May Taylor who died in 1998 (incidentally, DOB 24/3/21, not 23/3/21 as you've said):



May Taylor
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: May Taylor
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 24 Mar 1921
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 184
Residence Place: Middleton, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 43
Schedule Number: 179
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: NWBG
Borough: Middleton
Registration District: 467/1
Household Members:
Name
John W Taylor - widowed, 7 June 1881
May Taylor


Her death:

May Taylor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: May Taylor
Death Age: 77
Birth Date: 24 Mar 1921
Registration Date: Apr 1998
Registration District: Oldham
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Register Number: OC37B
District and Subdistrict: 0071C
Entry Number: 110


Her mother Charlotte Ann's death ?? Possibly in childbirth???

Deaths Jun 1921 (>99%)
Taylor Charlotte A 38 Oldham 8d 778


??
John William Taylor
in the 1911 England Census
Name: John William Taylor
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Withaworth Nr Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 34 Regent St Oldham Lanc
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Stripper And Grinder
Registration District: Oldham
Registration District Number: 469
Sub-registration District: Oldham East
ED, institution, or vessel: 03
Piece: 24441
Household Members:
Name Age
John William Taylor 29
Charlotte Ann Taylor 28
Nellie Taylor 5


TAYLOR, NELLIE mms TOFT
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 647



Nellie Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Nellie Taylor
Age: 0
Birth Date: 14 Aug 1905
Baptism Date: 1 Oct 1905
Baptism Place: Oldham, St Stephen and All Martyrs, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: St Stephen & All Martyrs, Oldham
Father: John William Taylor
Mother: Charlotte Ann Taylor
Reference Number: L228
Item Number: 4
Archive Roll: 633


So it seems that either you have the wrong birth and death dates for your May - or it's even more complicated than we thought!


ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 Sep 2020 21:16

Erika mentioned that Janet and Mona were at the same address in 1911 as in 1939 - and I see now that it is the address you gave in your opening post:

Mona Odgen
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Mona Odgen
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Oldham, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 60 New Earth Street Oldham
Occupation: School
Registration District: Oldham
Registration District Number: 469
Sub-registration District: Oldham East
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Piece: 24465
Household Members:
Name Age
Janet Odgen 37
Mona Odgen 8
Willie Odgen 5


ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 Sep 2020 21:31

Edward Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: Edward Taylor
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 30
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1900
Marriage Date: 16 Aug 1930
Marriage Place: Glodwick, Christ Church, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Glodwick
Father: Henry Taylor
Spouse: Mana Ogden
Reference Number: L47/2/2/5
Archive Roll: 549

Mona's father: John Edward Ogden, deceased
Mona's address: 60 New South Street..


Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
BROADBENT Janet Oldham 8d 1021
Ogden John Edward Oldham 8d 1021


OGDEN, MONA mms BROADBENT
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 658


Edward Taylor
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Edward Taylor
Age in 1911: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1901
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Oldham, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 40 Brunlees Hollinwood Om
Occupation: School
Registration District: Oldham
Registration District Number: 469
Sub-registration District: Oldham South
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Piece: 24508
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Taylor 38
Sarah Taylor 38
Mellie Taylor 16
Thomas Henry Taylor 14
Emanuel Taylor 13
Edward Taylor 10
Annie Taylor 5
Clarah Taylor 2

David

David Report 20 Sep 2020 21:34

HI Yes I was wrong my AuntyMay Taylor's birth date WAS 24th March 1921 and not the 23rd.
Yes I attended her cremation at Hollinwood Crem in April 1998.
Yes I DEFINITELYvisited Lees Cemetery with May about 1960 to put flowers on her mother's grave.
Cemetery records show both Edward and Mona 's grave as 2C94 and also buried there are a John Edward Ogden 1872-1910 and Janet Ogden1884-1947 so they are Mona Taylor's Nee Ogden mum and dad.
Where did I get the TOFT connection?.I must be wrong.
'Re Middleton is correct as I remember May and myself joking about the fact that we were both Middleton Moonrakers-the local name for anyone born there,as I was.So that info is correct.
I do certainly remember she had mentioned to me when I was a precocious kid of 10 doing his first family tree,that she had a brother called Dougie who I feel reasonably sure had the surname Taylor,like her.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 Sep 2020 21:51

If her DOB was definitely 24/3 /21, then she was the daughter of John William Taylor and Charlotte Ann Toft.

You said she was estranged from the Taylors.
Maybe that means her birth family - and not Edward and Mona ??

Maybe Edward and Mona had been like "parents" to her??
Her birth mother had died when May was born, by the look of it. (Or soon after).

David

David Report 21 Sep 2020 06:48

Thanks to All for your research and thoughts.
May 'sDOB definitely 24th March 1921.

May left the New Earth St.address in Lees probably after the death of her 'mother'' Mona in 1953 -the timeline is correct as she was given a home by my maternal grandma about that time when they both worked at Avros in Chadderton during that decade.
Interesting to know Charlotte was her real mum.
I can well believe she treated Edward and Mona as her real parents hence the visit tIo Lee's Cemetery with me in tow about 1960 to lay flowers and clean up the grave.I have a very strong memory of doing that aged 10 or so in 1960.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 21 Sep 2020 10:11

Going back to your opening query - looking for May's living relatives.

Her brother Douglas was born 1915, as already posted.
When May spoke about her brother, did you get the impression that he was alive at that time - 1960s?

This looks as if it should be him in 1939, with his wife:

Douglas Taylor
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Douglas Taylor
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 2 Aug 1915
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 89 Green Lane
Residence Place: Middleton, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Beert Sottline Stores General Labourer [" Beer bottling" on image]
Line Number: 3
Schedule Number: 74
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: NWAQ
Borough: Middleton
Registration District: 467/1
Inferred Spouse: Margaret Taylor
Household Members:
Name
Douglas Taylor
Margaret Taylor - 9 Oct 1917



and his marriage:

Douglas Taylor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Douglas Taylor
Registration Date: Jul 1937
[Aug 1937]
[Sep 1937]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Middleton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Margaret Weldon
Volume Number: 8d
Page Number: 2032


They had two sons, born in Middleton, in 1941 and 1947.
I'm not posting the details are they may well still be alive, but you can easily find them on FreeBMD.
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Just enter both parents' surnames in a birth search.

Unfortunately, both sons have such common names with no helpful middle initials, that it's hard, if not impossible, to trace them in later life, on Electoral Rolls, for instance..

The older son may perhaps have married in Middleton in 1964.
His wife's surname isn't an unusual one, so it's hard to know if any of the many Lancashire births after 1964 are their children or not.

The younger son may have married in Middleton in 1969.
His wife's surname is more unusual.
If so, there are three possible births of children, in Oldham, 1971, 1983, and 1985.
But also others in other places in Lancashire and elsewhere.

I can't see definite later records of any of the Oldham children, as the names aren't unusual enough.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 21 Sep 2020 10:15

If the 1939 record posted above for Douglas is the right one, then this is his death:

Douglas Taylor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Douglas Taylor
Death Age: 72
Birth Date: 2 Aug 1915
Registration Date: Oct 1987
Registration District: Manchester
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 38
Page: 784


and possibly Margaret's death:

Margaret Taylor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Margaret Taylor
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: 9 Oct 1917
Registration Date: Jul 2001
Registration District: Kettering
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Register Number: A61D
District and Subdistrict: 6691A
Entry Number: 251

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 21 Sep 2020 10:43

May's sister Nellie's marriage:

Nellie Taylor
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Nellie Taylor
Registration Date: Jul 1926
[Aug 1926]
[Sep 1926]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Harold Schofield
Volume Number: 8d
Page Number: 2067


Nellie Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: Nellie Taylor
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 20
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1906
Marriage Date: 10 Jul 1926
Marriage Place: Tonge cum Alkrington, St Michael, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Tonge-c-Alkrington
Father: John William Taylor
Spouse: Harold Schofield
Reference Number: L148
Archive Roll: 636




Nellie Schofield
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Nellie Schofield
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 14 Aug 1905
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 261 Boarshaw (?) Road
Residence Place: Middleton, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Roving frame Tenter (Cotton)
Line Number: 21
Schedule Number: 6
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: NWAP
Borough: Middleton
Registration District: 467/1
Inferred Spouse: Harold Schofield
Household Members:
Name
Harold Schofield
Nellie Schofield

No children with them in 1939.

There are various Schofield/Taylor births in Lancashire in the years after 1939, including two in Oldham in the 1940s, but I can't say if they're Nellie's children or not.

Nellie Schofield
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Nellie Schofield
Death Age: 77
Birth Date: 14 Aug 1905
Registration Date: Jul 1983
[Aug 1983]
[Sep 1983]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Manchester
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 38
Page: 0653


Nellie Schofield
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: Nellie Schofield
Death Date: 16 Jul 1983
Death Place: Swinton Manchester
Probate Date: 16 Nov 1983
Probate Registry: Manchester
Ref: 832116244H

Home address at death: 73 Barton Road, Swinton, Manchester.
Assets: £263690.

Her Will might name family members as beneficiaries.
You can buy a copy of it here:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar