Military Chat

Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1914

TAYLOR Florence Blanche Cannock (old Penkridge Rural District) Newcastle-Under-Lyme (Mother Maiden Name) HALL CAN/123/478

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(also on above)

Chris :)

(not relating below, another one Daughter of George and Selina, unmarried in Essington 1911)

Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1896

NICHOLLS Blanche Cannock (old Penkridge Rural District) Newcastle-Under-Lyme TUCKER

County Staffordshire
Place Rowley Regis
Church Holy Trinity (Old Hill)
RegisterNumber 12
MarriageDate 07 Apr 1890
GroomForename George
GroomSurname NICHOLLS
GroomAge 20
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation miner
GroomAbode Busbury, Stafford
BrideForename Selina
BrideSurname TUCKER
BrideAge 21
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideAbode Old Hill
GroomFatherForename George
GroomFatherSurname NICHOLLS
GroomFatherOccupation miner
BrideFatherForename Samuel
BrideFatherSurname TUCKER
BrideFatherOccupation miner
WitnessOneForename Abraham
WitnessOneSurname GRIFFITHS
WitnessTwoForename Rachel Jane
WitnessTwoSurname GRIFFITHS


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Pam - do you have an exact date of death for JW Taylor? Or an exact location?

It seems we can eliminate the John Taylor of the 7th (Queen's Own) Hussars who died 16 Oct 1914 because his widow was "Ada M" (as per the Register of Effects).

I've checked the register of Births at Sea and the British Nationals Armed Forces Births and there are no births of a Thomas Gilbert Taylor (or indeed any Taylor) on an HMS Rissario (or similar) - searched 1912 +/- 2 years.

However, there is this record with a place name that sounds remarkably similar to that given for the ship (of which I can find no record):

GRO Consular Birth Indices (1849 to 1965)
First name(s) THOMAS G
Last name TAYLOR
Birth year 1911-15
Place ROSARIO <<<<<<
Country ARGENTINA
Volume -
Page SEE 1956
Record source GRO Consular Birth Indices (1849 to 1965)
Record set British nationals born overseas 1818-2005

Now, this is not the name of a ship but an actual place (it's in the Santa Fe province of Argentina).

There is something odd in that for the page and volume it says "See 1956" which leads to this registration:

First name(s) THOMAS G
Last name TAYLOR
Birth year 1955-60
Place ROSARIO
Country ARGENTINA
Volume 50
Page 67
Record source GRO Consular Birth Indices (1849 to 1965)
Record set British nationals born overseas 1818-2005

I think you'd really need to speak to GRO to clarify the reason why the registration year has been amended (there are quite a few similar records).

There are quite a lot of Taylor births in the Rosario area which makes me think that this Thomas G is part of a family resident in Argentina.

What exactly does it say for Florence's father's occupation on her birth certificate?

Re.John William Taylor.
Some facts that have since been amended and may still be on some web sites are,
That he died in England in October 1914 at the time the family lived in the Walsall area.
His wife Blanche' Taylor (nee Nicholls) 1893-1937 and he had two children first a boy Thomas Gilbert Taylor born on the 7.2.1912 aboard HMS Rissario the record of which I found on Births at sea, but for which I have been unsuccessful in trying to get a birth certificate . The second child Florence Taylor born in April 1914 here in the Essington, Cannock area of the West Midlands and for which I have her certificate.
J.W.Taylor served as a private with the 7th Queens Own Hussars. The same regiment as Blanche's father. (George Nicholls who was a Pay Sargeant,, in the 7th Queens Own Hussars, these details appear in Blanche's second marriage certificate to Frederick Morris) for which I have the certificate.
These are all positive facts.
Pam Jeynes (nee Morris)

I think we need some clarification from Pam as to what are hard facts and what are assumptions.

Presuming the poster on the Ancestry message board is the same Pam then this is what is attached for John William Taylor:

Soldiers Died Great War
Name: John William Taylor
Birth Place: Lye, Worcs
Residence: Lye
Death Date: 18 Oct 1916
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Worcester
Rank: Private
Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Battalion: 4th Battalion
Regimental Number: 19763
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

The register of effects for that one has widow Emily.

More than happy to help solve a mystery but we need to ascertain what the known evidenced information is.

Pam's message on Ancestry 2007 giving slightly different info:

"My maternal Granmother Blanche' Nicholls was born in Rangoon,Burma Her father George was a Pay Sargeant with the 7th Queens Own Hussars. Blanche's first husband John William Taylor died while out there in Aug 1914 and her second child Florence by him was born and registered in England, but the funny thing was. that instead of Nicholls on her birth cert., as the mothers maiden name it was Hall..."

Who was the second child born to Blanche and John Taylor? Do you have details from the birth certificate?

Where did the info of Blanche sailing to UK in 1912 come from?

Pam - where did you get the info re his death? Just a bit puzzled as none of the records mention a middle name for this death.

Because he died on home soil, there's a civil death registration that gives his age:

Deaths Dec 1914
Taylor John 26 Petersfield 2c 231

Soldiers Died Great War entry:

Name: John Taylor
Birth Place: West Hartlepool
Residence: West Hartlepool
Death Date: 16 Oct 1914
Death Place: Home
Enlistment Place: Hull
Rank: Private
Regiment: Household Cavalry and Cavalry of the Line
Battalion: 7th (Queens Own) Hussars
Regimental Number: 15477
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Home

According to the Register of Soldiers effects for that CWGC death he had an alias of John Lockwood and his widow was Ada M.

He died in Petersfield, born West Hartlepool and he was previously a bootmaker. He'd enlisted 25 Aug 1914.

ADDED: Before the widow's name of Ada had been entered it previously had "father J".

Date of death is given on the CWGC site

Taylor, J
Rank: Private
Service No:15477
>>>>>>>Date of Death: 16/10/1914<<<<
Regiment/Service: 7th (Queen's Own) Hussars
Grave Reference: C.E. G. 96.

A photo of his headstone can be found here
http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=3151926

John William Taylor a private with the 7th Queens own hussars, theatre of war HOME service number 15477 Commemoration Bordon Military Cemetery. Grave C.E.G. 96
Pam

One thought Pam - you mentioned that John William Taylor died around 1914, do you happen to have an exact date?

Might be able to work back from him.

Thanks for your very prompt reply, yes I was convinced at first that George and Anastasia Nicholls could have been the ones I was looking for , what with the area, regiment etc., But sadly not., I seem to remember finding a marriage for them in England, so,NO, it cannot be them, must keep searching.
As for George above having served in Ceylon, my George was a pay sergeant with the 7th Queens own hussars and at the time of Blanche 's birth, where based in Rangoon Burma. His wife died giving birth, the other twin a boy died also. In the early days of my research I am sure I found a record for twins for a boy and a girl, the girl being called Blanche' that was in the consul records, but cannot seem to be able to get on that site again, Can't find the paper record I saved either. Blanches first husband John William Taylor was also in the Hussars, cannot find a marriage for them but I know Blanche sailed to England heavierly pregnant with her first child Giving birth while at sea to Thomas Gilbert Taylor in February 1912 Aboard HM Rosario. If only I could find their wedding certificate, I recon they wed around 1910 as she would have been about 17 or. 18 years of age. Not much more I can tell you. Pam

Looking at this from another angle -

The above George Nicholls DID serve in Ceylon from 1891 to 1896 (as well as East Indies and South Africa). May he have had a relationship whilst there and Blanche was the result?

If Blanche was brought up by nuns then how reliable would be her recollection of her father's regiment? Or was she later reunited with him?

You say his regiment is on her second marriage certificate - what is on her first?

Re: the transcription of service records that Gins posted above - I've read through the records (the FindMyPast version which is extensive) and there are some things not adding up.

You say Blanche's mother died in childbirth after having twins - that doesn't match the service records.

This man married Anastasia Rourke on 10 May 1887 in Clonmel, Ireland. She was still alive 1911 and living at 76a West Street, Warwick.

They had children John Francis 17 Feb 1888 and George Henry 22 Sep 1891 - there is no mention of a Blanche and the 1911 posted above only lists two children.

The Queens Own Hussars is an entirely different regiment, may just be a coincidence that the two George Nicholls happened to be in the 7th battalion of their respective regiments but I don't think the George who married Anastasia is your man.

This is possibly the George listed in the documents above:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
160 Hatfield Terrace Emscote Road Warwick, Warwick St Nicholas, Warwickshire, England

George Nicholls Head Married Male Army Pensioner Clerk 43 1868 Warwickshire
Anastasia Nicholls Wife Married Female - 40 1871 Tipperary Clonmel Sutton Colfield Resident

married 23 years, 2 children- both still living
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Married in Ireland:

First name(s) George
Last name Nicholls
Registration year 1887
Registered Quarter/Year Apr - Jun 1887
Registration district Clonmel
Volume 4
Page 258
MarriageFinder™ George Nicholls married one of these people
Anastasia Rourke, Johanna O'Halloran, Mary Walsh, Anastasia Rorke, Mary Joseph Lyons
Record set Irish Marriages 1845-1958

Thank you so much for all the research that you have done, there seems to be lots of George Nicholls, that I have found in the army records, but which is the correct one? the interesting fact that you have ,is he served with the 7th Battalion Royal Warwickshire regiment. do you think this could be the same as the 7th Queen's own Hussars, which I know for a fact my George Nicholls served, as it appears on my grandmother marriage certificate to her 2nd husband Frederick Morris, and where could I find a marriage certificate for George & Annastasia? the family said that she was Italian where do I look? Army records, or did they marry abroard it's a real mistry.

Pam Jeynes (nee Morris)

Would this be her father?



British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920

Name:George Nicholls

Gender:Male

Birth Date:abt 1870

Birth Place:Stonnall, Staffordshire, England

Age:41

Document Year:1911

Regimental Number:1428

Regiment Name:1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Form Title:Territorial Force Attestation

Number of Images:6


Family Members:


Name

Relation to Soldier

George Nicholls Self (Head)
Anastasia Nicholls Wife


On the document it says he served in the 7th battalion, Royal Warwickshire

My grand - mother was married twice, first to a John William Taylor, they had two children together, he was in the army presumably out in Burma, whilst pregnant with her first child Thomas Gilbert Taylor she was aboard HMS Rissario sailing for England when she gave birth to him on the 7th Frebruay 1912 at sea.John William Taylo must have returned to England at some point as their second child was born in April 1914.Later that same. Year he dies presumably. While still in the army as I have a documenting letter to confirm this. In 1917 she marries a Frederick. Morris from Walsall the same neighbourhood as she had been living. Since she arrived in Britain