Military Chat

Question .
How do you become a Chelsea pensioner .?
As my Grandfather James William Leary . Born 1879

Was In the Boer War . And also fought In WW1 .
Was not In the army In WW2 . And Died In 1941 as a civilian .

He Is down as a Chelsea Pensioner .
WO97 .( What does this stand for . )
British Army Service Records 1760-1913.

Anthony Leary . Many thanks In Advance

Is your date of birth correct as he could not have served in the Boer War

Hello Glitterbaby.
I am Sorry Its a faux paux Drat . Correction ....................................................
He was born in 1879 .
I have now corrected It . Thanks very much :-D :-0

Here Is his army details .

Anglo Boer War Record 1899-1902.

James Leary . Number 5369. Rank. Private
Regiment Unit 2

The Duke Of Cambridge own( Middlesex Regiment ).
Rolls 195.
Enlisted Age 19. At Hounslow 1898
Occupation .Labourer

WO97 I believe is The National Archive number for the records

Many Thanks . Glitterbaby. :-)

W097 is the National Archives reference for army pensioner records.

If your grandfather served and was eligible for an army pension that's simply what it refers to.

" The Chelsea Pensioners British Army service records (WO97) comprise more than 1 million records for men pensioned out of the British Army in the period 1760 to 1913. The pension records do not just relate to older men: soldiers were eligible for a pension after 12 years of service so relatively young men could be pensioned out. The connection with Chelsea Pensioners is that the pensions were administered through the Royal Hospital at Chelsea. The great majority of pensioned soldiers were "out-pensioners" and did not reside at the hospital itself. Most of these soldiers were born in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales; however, a significant proportion came from other parts of the British Empire.

The Royal Hospital, Chelsea, pensioners' discharge documents (WO121) comprise 246,977 images for 84,916 men for the period 1760 to 1887. This series is almost identical to some of the discharge documents in the Chelsea Pensioners British Army service records (WO97). The difference is that this series comprises bound volumes of the discharge documents, with the front page on the right hand side and the back page on the left hand side of the relevant image. It is possible that an ancestor's record runs over more than two pages as there are 246,977 images for 84,916 men.

What are the Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records ?

These records are of men pensioned out of the British Army 1760 to 1913. The connection with "Chelsea Pensioners" is that the pensions were administered through The Royal Hospital at Chelsea. The great majority of pensioned soldiers were "out-pensioners" and did not reside at the Hospital itself."

You probably have this already, but if not...

Military Record say he was married to Bridget Malone.28.8.03 at St Andrew Westland Row Dublin , Witnesses were Joseph O'Toole & Ellen Doyle.

His parents were James and Lilly of 2 Georges Place , Whitechapel London. 2 brothers, George & John. Four sisters Millicent, Lilly, Emma and Ada.

Two children recorded James 13.1.04 Dublin and George Edwards 7.8.10 Dublin

As you say, he fought in the Boer War and was entitled to both the Queen's Medal & King's Medal with clasps.

Discharged 6.4.10

Joined April 1898 Hounslow, had been in Militia (Middlesex Regiment, mght be 35th or 38th). was C of E, aged 19 years . 5 ft 4 1/2 ins 115 lb. Fresh complexion, fair hair and hazel eyes. Scar point right elbow. Tattoed left forearm. Born Stepney, London Middlesex.

First name(s) JAMES
Last name LEARY
Birth year 1879
Birth parish STEPNEY
Birth town LONDON
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND
Service number 5369
Rank -
Regiment Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) - 57th & 77th Foot
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1898
Attestation Day 7
Attestation Month 4
Attestation age years 19
Attestation age months -
Attestation Corps Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)
Attestation service number 5369
Discharge Corps Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)
Series WO97 chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 5324
Box Record Number 115
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

For ref....Just in case you don't have this...

Residents of a house 11.4 in King Street, South (Mansion House, Dublin)
Leary James 32 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic London Co Midden Caretaker
Leary Bridget Elizabeth 34 Female Wife Roman Catholic City of Dublin - Married - 8 2 2
Leary James Gerald 7 Male
Leary George Edward Male

Eringobragh1916's census find ties with a faint line on the service record that has deferred payment to 'Wife 16 South Kings Street Dublin then either '05 or '08.

Re wo97

Here's some other examples

This is an 1881 census for an Ada Leary - clearly not your guy's sister, though:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3PF-3GH
The impt bit here is:
Affiliate Publication Number:RG11
Piece/Folio:365 / 103
Page Number:6

I cant't see the actual census image as I don't hace an Ancestry/FMP/GR sub., but Ancestry now includes that same info in their transcription, and I think at the end of the transcription, they have a line like:
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 365; Folio: 103; Page: 6; Line: ; GSU roll: 1234567.

If I were to look at the image, just off the main image (below it, I think here) is the Public Record Office copyright slip, and written on that is the reference rg11/365
These PRO record #s were continued by the PRO's successor, the NA, so lets ook in their search engine:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

I can search for rg11/365 and see:
Reference: RG 11/365
Description:
Registration Sub-District 10A Whitecross Street.
Civil Parish, Township or Place: St Luke (5)
Date: 1881

and in the footer:
RG - Records of the General Register Office, Government Social Survey Department, and Office of Population Censuses and Surveys
RG 11 - General Register Office: 1881 Census Returns
LONDON - MIDDLESEX
Registration District 13.HOLBORN
RG 11/365 - Registration Sub-District 10A Whitecross Street. Civil Parish, Township or Place: St...

I could also search for rg11 - for you to try.

NB rg9-rg14 are the class #s for the census 1861-1911, and rg78 for the 1911 summary books
1841-1851 both got the Home Office code ho107.
1841 PRO refs have an extra element, a book #, and would look like ho107/123/4 - however you can't search for this, just for ho107/123, say.
If I were interested in say 1841 piece #s for Co durham, I could do an advanced search for all of the words Durham & 1841 within ref ho107.

===============

Ancestry has the record of my dad's Uncle Josepf and Aunt Rebecca returning to Scotland.

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Source Citation: Class: BT26; Piece: 1006; Item: 19

If I look up bt26/106/19, I get:

Reference: BT 26/1006/19
Description:
Glasgow: SS Letitia (Donaldson Line) travelling from Montreal to Glasgow.
Embarking at Montreal and Quebec.
Official Number: 148847.
List of passengers disembarking at Glasgow, Belfast and Liverpool.
Date: 1933 Jul 28

and in the footer:
BT - Records of the Board of Trade and of successor and related bodies
Records of the Commercial, Companies, Labour, Railways and Statistics Departments
BT 26 - Board of Trade: Commercial and Statistical Department and successors: Inwards Passenger Lists
Inwards passenger lists, 1933
BT 26/1006 - Port: Glasgow
BT 26/1006/19 - Glasgow: SS Letitia (Donaldson Line) travelling from Montreal to Glasgow. Embarking at...

I could also search for bt26 - for you to try.

===============

wo95 has the unit war diaries for WW1, so if I were interested in the war diaries of a couple of 50th div units, I can search within ref wo95.

search wo95 for 447 & engineers

Reference: WO 95/2821/3
Description:
447 Field Company Royal Engineers
Date: 1915 Apr. - 1919 May

WO - Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Records of the Armed Forces from commands, headquarters, regiments and corps
WO 95 - War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries
PART I: FRANCE, BELGIUM AND GERMANY
50 DIVISION
WO 95/2821 - Divisional Troops (Described at item level)
WO 95/2821/3 - 447 Field Company Royal Engineers
[This was my grandad's unit]

-----

search wo95 for 5 & Durham (2 relevant hits):

Reference: WO 95/2837/2
Description:
5 Battalion Durham Light Infantry
Date: 1914 July - 1918 Jan.

footer ends with:
50 DIVISION
WO 95/2837 - 150 Infantry Brigade (Described at item level)
WO 95/2837/2 - 5 Battalion Durham Light Infantry

-----

Reference: WO 95/2840/1
Description:
5 Battalion Durham Light Infantry
Date: 1918 Feb. - 1918 Oct.

footer ends with:
50 DIVISION
WO 95/2840 - 151 Infantry Brigade (Described at item level)
WO 95/2840/1 - 5 Battalion Durham Light Infantry
[My wife's g uncle was in 1/5 bn DLI - they were with 150 bde until Feb '18, when they transferred to 151 bde - by July '18, they were so chewed up, they were put on l.o.c. work, but Uncle William's dead by then]


Same price for each - £3.30, but size varies:
Download size approximately 152 MB
Download size approximately 53 MB
Download size approximately 11.5 MB

Incidentally, 2 of my dads cousins (Uncle Joe's sons) served with the CEF, and Canadian unit war diaries are also uniformly priced (they're all free).

I could also search for wo95 - for you to try.

:-) Hello Everybody ." Wow " The amount of Information provided Is absolutely amazing .
May I express my heartfelt thanks to you all for your excellent research and wonderful Information . It has opened up a whole picture of My Grandfather .

Very Best Wish's
Anthony Leary . :-)

I found the family at 2, George Place, in the 1901 census. The names given in the military record seem to have been very loose!!!!


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

2, George Place, Bethnal Green, London, England

James Leary Head Married Male 43 1858 Umbrella Maker Stepney, Middlesex, England
Harriet Leary Wife Married Female 41 1860 - Stepney, Middlesex, England
Harriet Leary Daughter Single Female 19 1882 Cloak Maker Mile End, Middlesex, England
Emily Leary Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Laundress Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Amelia Leary Daughter Single Female 14 1887 Tailoress London, England
George Leary Son Single Male 10 1891 - Limehouse, Middlesex, England
Ada Leary Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England
Albert Leary Son Single Male 4 1897 - Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England
Alfred Leary Son Single Male 3 1898 - Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England
Nelly Leary Daughter Single Female 0 1901 - Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England

Ada and George are there. Amelia could be known as Millie, which has then been broadened to 'Millicent'. I have no idea if the two Harriets approximate the the two 'LIllys', but suppose Emily could be 'Emma'. No idea which son is meant to be 'John' . :-S

Possible 1881...Also a son William

12 St Thomas' Road
Mile End Old Town.

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James Leary Head M 24 M E O T, Middlesex,
Harriett Leary Wife F 22 Stepney, Middlesex,
James Leary Son M 2 Stepney, Middlesex,
William Leary Son M 0 Stepney, Middlesex,

Maybe little William died young?

Deaths Sep 1881 Leary William Henry 0 Mile end 1c 354

Births Dec 1880 Leary William Henry Mile End Old Town 1c 547

Name: James William Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 6 Apr 1879
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Harriet Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse Fields St John
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address poss 105 Edward Rd

Name: William Henry Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Nov 1880
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Harriet Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse Fields St John
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Name: Harriet Elizabeth Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 Nov 1881
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Harriet Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse Fields St John
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

????

Name: Emily Charlotte Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 Sep 1883
Father's name: James Cornelius Leary
Mother's name: Harriet Charlotte Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Anne
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

105 Salmon Lane. Father an umbrella maker

Name: Amelia Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1887
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Harriet Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Leonard St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Bromley, father an umbrella finisher

Name: George William Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1890
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Harriett Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse Fields St Matthew
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

6 Repton st. Father an Umbrella finisher. Born 5 Aug 1890

Name: Alfred Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 20 Oct 1897
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Harriett Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St Bartholomew
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address 2 Georges Place Brady St. Father a labourer.

Name: Edward Cornelius Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Feb 1904
Father's name: James Cornelius Leary
Mother's name: Harriet Charlotte Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born jan 22. Neath Place. Father a labourer.

Can't find baptisms for Nelly or Albert.

???

Name: James Cornelius Leary - umbrella maker
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Age: 21
Spouse: Harriet Charlotte Kimberley
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Dec 1878
Parish: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Leary - lamp lighter
Spouse Father: James William Kimberley
Register Type: Parish Register - gas fitter

Bride of Brady St, Groom of Wilmot St. Witnesses Miss Emily Leary , J W Kimberley.

Baptism of James:

Name: James Cornelins Leary
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 20 Sep 1857
Father's name: James Leary
Mother's name: Hannah Leary
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse Fields St John
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born aug 4th 1857. Father a labourer. 1 Hope Place.