Military Chat

My father was illegitmate, born in 1917, and seems to have no birth certificate. He was called up in 1939. Would the army not have required a birth certificate to register him when he was called up?

Madeleine

Welcome to the boards Madeleine.

I doubt that the army would have needed a birth certificate in 1939. Most places relied on people's honesty in those days. I only ordered my own birth certificate a few years ago.

If your father was born in 1917 you should be able to find his birth registration in the indexes and you could order a copy. Do you know his mother's name?

If you would like to give your father's name and an area where he was born and I could have a look for you.

Kath. x

Has your father died? If so, his exact dob would help to filter the results. 6 weeks to register a birth which could take it into the next 'quarter' or even the following year.

It would be more difficult if he was adopted as official adoption didn't start until the 1920s. However, it might be possible to identify births were the child's surname is the same as the mothers maiden name eg

Scott, George mmn Scott.

If he was adopted, all of his names might have been changed.

Thanks, Detective. I knew my father and have his death certificate. He was raised by his mother, b. Florence Dooley; m. to Wm. Mabbott in April 1915. When Sgt. Mabbott was in France (WW I) she had my father to a soldier, possibly from Clipstone Camp. Dad was born Herbert Dooley in June 1917 in Mansfield Woodhouse. No b.c. Now looking for Paris Records for baptism, but no Notts. Parish Registers with GR. My grandmother moved to Leeds in 1923 and changed both their names to Whitfield. Was that the biological father's name? There was an Lt. H. Whitfield based in Clipstone in September 1916. Can't find any info on him.
Thanks for your offer of help,
Madeleine Whitfield

You could ask Wendy (aka Nottsgirl) if she would do a parish records look up for you via her thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1266434?page=0

thanks. I'll follow this up.

The only Herbert Dooley with a birth reg in 1917 is

Births Sep 1917 (>99%)
Dooley Herbert mmn Seal Haslingden 8e 165

HASLINGDEN REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.4.1974 (to become part of Hyndburn & Rossendale registration district).
Sub-districts : Accrington, Bacup, Edenfield, Haslingden, Newchurch, Rawtenstall, Rossendale.

Births reg in Mansfield 1916-1918 with mmn Dooley
Births Jun 1917 (>99%)
Staton Cadis Dooley Mansfield 7b 161

Births Mar 1918 (>99%)
Barlow Sydney Dooley Mansfield 7b 199

Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
Jordan Douglas H Dooley Mansfield 7b 2754
Turton Stella F Dooley Mansfield 7b 248

Have you considered contacting the local registry offices? The registers for Mansfield Woodhouse, if he was reg'ed there, are held at Nottingham.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/regoff.html#685

Although it would take longer, they may be more willing than the GRO to search for the correct entry.

One thing that puzzles me is why you are sure he was registered as
Dooley, mmn Dooley rather than Mabbott mmn Dooley?

The child of a married woman is presumed to be her husband's child even if he'd died before conception.

Is this relevant to H Whitfield? As you know, a large %age of WW1 records were destroyed during WW2. However, it may be possible to trace officers records

WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
Name: H Whitfield
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: 2nd Lieutenant
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Durham Light Infantry

See the National Archive site on how to search for Officer's records
http://tinyurl.com/zhyfok6

DetEcTive! You sure are good at this! I've contacted the Nottingham registry office and will try the army records too.

To answer your question about the name, I'm pretty sure my grandmother would not have registered my dad as Mabbott, because he was not her husband's baby. Since she lived in a small village, everybody would know that. Also, when Sgt. Mabbott came home, he returned to his father's house and declared himself single from then on. They never reconciled.

Before she died, an elderly lady from Mansfield Woodhouse that I contacted, wrote to me that she went to school with my dad and he was known as Bert Dooley.

To add to my last post, I did look for dad to be registered under Mabbott when I was first being helped by a librarian here. She suggested that, but we could find nothing.

I found some brief information about H. C. Whitfield in the National Archives military records at Kew, but there was nothing about where he had been stationed before going to France, nor any details about how to find any personal information. Would it be possible to find the address the army had for him at this late stage?

A very long shot but that birth that Detective mentioned Herbert Dooley, mmn Seal , would tie in with this marriage
Marriages Sep 1909 (>99%)

DOOLEY Albert Haslingden 8e 321
SEAL Jane Ann Haslingden 8e 321

Just wondering, as there is only that one birth to that couple after 1911 whether Albert Dooley might be a relative of Florence's and that he and his wife registered the child as their own to 'save face' ...? possibly with the intention of raising him as their own, as I say a long shot!

Hi Rambling Rose, No it's not the Seal people. I mistakenly sent for that birth certificate and none of the names on it relate to my family. People who knew the family in Mansfield Woodhouse were in contact with me 15 years ago (before the "old lady" died) and told me that everyone knew that Florence, my grandmother, was pregnant to a soldier while her husband was away in France. They were very very poor and she wouldn't have been able to go anywhere to have her baby. As well, she was looking after her father and two younger brothers. My dad went to school with this old lady until he was 8 under the name Bert Dooley.

Births Sep 1917
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

?
Foster Herbert Dooley Grantham 7a 640

about 35 miles away from MW.

I found the entry for Foster with the mmn Dooley, but no other information. Can I see the birthdate and other information without paying the GRO? Last time I did that, it turned out to be a dead end.

Thanks,
Madeleine

Madeleine,

Sorry its the same process to find all the details on the certificate.

What you could try is when ordering is state a mothers name,if it doesnt match then it wont be issued.

In Williams scant records(if correct) it doesnt state when he married which normally was the norm as he would have been awarded extra pay which she would have been entitled to ,,,,,.he joined in 1914 as a single man.

you know we might be missing a small detail here. gossip has a way of messing things up.
have you the marriage cert?
may be "the solder" was "her husband" but in fact never married?
have you looked in the 1911 cencus for all the village? you might find out how close they lived

Bill, the marriage looks correct:

Name: Florence A Dooley
Spouse: Mabbott
Marriage: Apr 1915 - Mansfield, Nottinghamshire

I'm in regular contact with William Mabbott's great niece, who gave me copies of all the Wm. Mabbott army documents. He had been regular army and was a drill sergeant in the 14/18 war at some point. He was single in 1914, but married April 7, 1915. He was then in France.
The gossip that my grandmother, née Dooley, got pregnant with a soldier, was told to me by a woman who went to primary school with my dad. Her mother was friendly with the Dooleys. That's all we know.
Since my grandmother took the name Whitfield when she moved to Leeds in 1923, I reckoned that she would have taken the name of my dad's father and that he lived in Leeds. My father had a recollection of a man coming to visit them who drove a car and he thought that was his dad. He was told the man was a travelling salesman, but that could have been just a story.
I looked for soldiers named Whitfield near Mansfield Woodhouse during the War, and came up with a Lt. H. Whitfield based at Clipstone Camp in 1916. He became regular army after the war, but I couldn't get any military records about him that would give his address or any other information. This is the dead end I've reached. If I could find out info about Lt. H. Whitfield, I'd know if he was a likely candidate.
Long winded, but all the details I have.
Thanks, Madeleine

First name(s) ALBERT E
Last name BROADHEAD
Birth year 1917
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's last name DOOLEY
District BASFORD
County Nottinghamshire
Country England
Volume 7B
Page 453
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain.

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