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HMS Welshman (M84) (Leslie Payne)

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Ben

Ben Report 30 Dec 2017 23:30

I am looking for more information about a crew member Leslie Payne, i think he lived in dartford he served on HMS Welshman and was aboard when it Sunk, 1 February 1943. he remembered walking off the ship via one of the funnels. I have searched survivor lists and information and cannot find any information. he certainly died in Burbage Gloucestershire Any help or links to resources would be gratefully appreciated would be gratefully appreciated

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 31 Dec 2017 11:21

Is Burbage in Gloucestershire? What year did he die?

Do you have an approximate date of birth for Leslie?

Ben

Ben Report 1 Jan 2018 14:16

I do apologize

He died in Burbage Leicestershire
Buried in Burbage cementry down lychgate lane

26th august 2007
I live a couple of streets away
so took a picture of it today


+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Jan 2018 15:49

Unfortunately, Ben, you didn’t give his year of birth. As the death records aren’t online, we can’t look it up for ourselves.
His recent death also means that there’s a chance his entry on the 1939 register might be closed. That’s assuming that he hadn’t already been conscripted.

If you’re related, you could apply for a copy of his service records which would still be with the MOD. However, from what others have said, seamen’s Records are frequently given to the men when they are discharged. There would still be some paperwork, but it wouldn’t be complete.

This is the link for obtaining UK service records which cost £30.
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Jan 2018 15:57

Just search without a birth year but in Dartford, there are the following entries on the 1939 register .

Evans Household (3 People)
9 Maple Road , Dartford M.B., Kent, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Leslie Payne 09 Mar 1915 Baker single
Stanley Evans 03 Feb 1898 Milk Salesman
Dorothea Evans 28 Aug 1910 Housewife Unpaid

Payne Household (5 People)
39 St Martins Road , Dartford M.B., Kent, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Leslie G W Payne 15 Aug 1920 Bricklayer
Edward C W Payne 06 Jun 1881 Carpenter & Joiner
May F Payne 04 Oct 1882 Domestic Unpaid
Emma E Sapsford (Payne) 27 Jul 1923 Bottle Sorter Chemical
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Please, give us ALL of the facts that you’ve gleaned from the headstone &, if you know it, the names of any spouse or children. We might be able to work back from that.

Ben

Ben Report 1 Jan 2018 16:02

sorry that might be helpful he was 85 when he passed so 1922, i dont know the date of birth

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Jan 2018 16:09

Did you mention Dartford at one point? If he lived there in his formative years, might this be his birth?
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Births Dec 1922 (>99%)
Payne Leslie A Starmer Leicester 7a 310
Payne Leslie E Blake Greenwich 1d 1514 <<

Without a known middle name, it’s a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack.

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Jan 2018 16:17

Have you tried searching all members trees, top right under Search? There are 28 results for Leslie Payne 1922+/- 1.

Although some may be dormant accounts, you might get replies from a few messages.

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 1 Jan 2018 17:55

Det- the death is on Ancestry (unfortunately no DOB):

Name: Mr Leslie Hubert Payne
Gender: Male
Age: 85
Birth Date: 1922
Death Date: 26 Aug 2007
Residence Place at Death: Hinckley, Leicestershire, England
Postal Code District: Le10
---------------------------

Looking at the electoral registers, possibly married Ethel in 1946 Hackney

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Jan 2018 21:08

Well, at least we now have a middle name! Every little helps ;-)

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 2 Jan 2018 00:13

Hopless at work births out, but possibly one of these?

Births Sep 1921 (>99%)
Payne Leslie H mmn Cripps H.Hempstead 3a 1605


Births Jun 1922 (>99%)
Payne Leslie H mmn Rose Edmonton 3a 1254

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 2 Jan 2018 00:19

Parents marriage for the birth in 1921?

Marriages Sep 1918 (>99%)m
Cripps Florence L Payne H.Hempstead 3a 1993
Payne Alfred C Cripps H. Hempstead 3a 1993

Too many Payne/Rose marriages to even make a guess!

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 2 Jan 2018 07:01

I suspect his birth is the 1922 Edmonton birth. - Parents were Joseph Payne and Florence Emma Rose.

Leslie is with his parents on the electoral register in Edmonton in 1946. In 1947 he's still in Edmonton (at a different address) with his wife Ethel.

This is Joseph & family in 1939 (Leslie is likely to be the closed record):

5 Gordon Road , Enfield U.D., Middlesex, England
Joseph Payne 12 Oct 1880 Male General Labourer (Pavior) Married
Florence E Payne 17 Feb 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
William J Payne 05 May 1915 Male General Labourer (Pavior) Single
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
---------------------------------

However, none of this helps with the original question!

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 2 Jan 2018 07:14

If anything in below...(not seeing him mentioned in Newspapers)

Chris :)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16381470

(Admiralty: Casualty Branch: Enquiries into Missing Personnel, 1939-1945 War. HMS Welshman: 1 February 1943; sunk by enemy action, torpedoed in the Mediterranean Sea)

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 2 Jan 2018 11:49

If the focus is purely on Leslie's military service, it looks as if Ben is going to have to apply for his records.

Elizabeth

Elizabeth Report 13 Jan 2018 03:14

HMS Welshman M84 was a Cruiser-minelayer , it had 289 on board 165 died
There is a list of the dead but not the survivors, together with a lot of info on how the survivors escaped and where they ended up. Just google uboat.net