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Husband's Gt. Grandmother, domestic servant, her son was born 1887 at Belhelvie and was brought up by foster family. Believe she married an Alexander Donaldson later on but can find no trace of marriage.
Ruth Pirie

There are only 2 deaths between 1920 and 1960 on Scotlandspeople for Margaret Pirie with another surname Donaldson. Have you look at either of those?

Also there is only 1 marriage of a Margaret Pirie to a Donaldson but his first name isn't Alexander - have you looked at that? Can you be sure that her husband's name was Alexander?

I searched marriages and deaths. No marriages but I found a death that is for a Murray, previously Donaldson nee Pirie!! Still no marriages to either the Murray or the Donaldson men. Nothing to identify which Margaret Pirie she is. She also signed her son's birth cert Maggie Pirie so don't know if it's shortened or if it was her real name. On her son's marriage cert under parents it says Margaret Pirie now married to Alexander Donaldson. But even his death cert is wrong as it has his mother's name mixed up with his foster mother's name - so don't know if he ever saw his mother. I'm sure I will have, but I'll look again at the 2 deaths you mention.
Thanks

Had another look on Scotlandspeople that marriage was in East Lothian so seems unlikely.

You can narrow the dates of her Donaldson marriage as you know that it was after her son was born but before he married. i checked using "Maggie" rather than Margaret because she may have used that but nothing came up.


A look at the 1901 census for any possibilities, assuming that she married Alexander before then showed only this one about the correct age.



Name: Margaret Donaldson
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : Alexander
Gender: Female
Where born: Denny, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 476/1
Registration district: Denny
Civil parish: Denny
Town: Denny
County: Stirlingshire
Address: 60 Broad St
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 174
Line: 19
Roll: CSSCT1901_154
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Donaldson 29
Margaret Donaldson 30
Manie Donaldson 5
James Donaldson 4
Margaret Donaldson 2

The one thing I do have that could help is her son's name is Alexander Scott Pirie. Wondered why she would give him this middle name. I have done the searches you suggest over the years. Weird thing is his mother in laws maiden name is Scott. May mean something or nothing!!

The usual reason for giving an illegitimate child a middle name like that is that it was the surname of the father of the child

I thought that at one time also. I'm sure I searched census' for Pirie and a Scott that may have worked together. Often the problem has been too many results to choose from.

The death I did find for Margaret Murray, previously Donaldson nee Pirie was dated 1922 age 66 at Inchbare, By Brechin, Stracathro.
Not saying it is definately her as death cert is complicated and you know how details can be completely wrong.

Ruth

I am sure that you will have already tried this but in this situation it is all about throwing ideas about until we strike it lucky! Have you found the marriage certificate (the one to Mr Murray) for that Margaret on the death certificate? Who was the informant on the death certificate? Did she die in her own home or hospital?

The other feint hope would be that she claimed poor relief when her son was born - given that he was fostered rather than raised by her family. Not all the poor relief records have survived but you could check with the local archives or perhaps Aberdeenshire Family History Society.

The middle name of Scott may well be significant but you can never be certain. Now that you have given her son's name, I am wodering if Mr Donalson's name was Alexander or if her son just gave his own christian name as he didn't know the man's name. It is not at all uncommon, from my experience, especially for illegitimate sons to say on their marriage certificate that the father had the same name as themselves and invent an occupation!

Someone at ANEFHS mentioned something once about the court or church. When men were asked to admit to illeg. children. Do you where these records are kept, and what I am talking about?
Yeh, checked for marriages for her everwhere.
Could check for poor relief but the name is common and don't know where she lived.

Good Morning Ruth

I think that had there been a court case it would be recorded on the Register of Corrected Entries (RCE) on Alexander's birth certifictae. This would appear in the left marriage of the certificate giving a volume and page number (I think from memory). If there is an RCE, this can be viewed on Scotlandspeople for another credit. A red button saying RCE will appear on screen at the top (again from memory).

If Margaret claimed poor relief when Alexander was born, then she would have claimed in the area she lived at the time of the birth. If relief was granted then the authorities would then reclaim the cost of the relief from her "home" parish.

Hope this helps.

EDIT

The church records for Belhelvie may have survived so it may be worth trying to track these down. Just to see if there is a mention in these.

If that is the right Margert Donaldson in the Census on the thread then 1 of their children's birth records will have the marriage details on it.

Yes, that's him on the census with the foster family who brought him up. The daughter Elisia was a witness at his marriage, this cross refrence helped me find him. I'll go and check his birth cert for RCE, sure I would have noticed though.
Thanks everyone, don't let the ideas stop
If you notice the 1901 census on Ancestry has been transcribed incorrectly - his age show 74 instead of 14 years of age.
xx ;)

Hi Ellen
Yes, Mary Forbes' maiden name is Mackie and she married George Forbes 19 June 1869. I came to the conclusion that she fostered children as after her husband died she had children with differing surnames boarding with her. Alex Pirie stayed with her until he was married. I have tried to identify his mother by way of a map showing where he was born and where he first went to live with Mary Forbes, but the Margaret Pirie's on the 1881 census' are either all very far away or else in Aberdeen City. Left with about 6 or so to choose from.
Ruth

I don't know where you are base Ruth but have a look here for some church records.

http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/

Just type Belhelvie in the search box and some dates eg 1880 to 1905 and you find these. You never know, there just might be something in them.



Reference Title Date Access status
CH2/32 Records of Belhelvie Kirk Session 1623-1934
CH3/41 Belhelvie and Shiels Free Church (also United Presbyterian, United Free and Belhelvie South Church of Scotland) 1828-1933
CH3/41/2 Belhelvie kirk session: Minutes 1857-1917 Check details
CH3/41/4 Belhelvie Free/United Free kirk session: Deacons' court minutes 1857-1906 Check details
CH3/41/7 Belhelvie Free/United Free kirk session: Account book 1873-1931 Check details
CH3/41/8 Belhelvie Free kirk session: Communion roll 1891-1925 Check details
ED13/377 Educational Trusts 1885-1887

I'm based in Aberdeen, I'll try the link for church records you show,
thanks
Ruth

Ruth
As this line never came up with anything helpful.Shall i delete them?

Poor Relief records held at Old Aberdeen House

Actually Ellen, it was your post of young Alexander with his foster family in Belhelvie that made me think that either Mary Forbes was fostering through her local church or parish poor relief committee.

I still say Mary Forbes family is related in some way.She would have been paid for caring for Alexander Pirie,or claimed poor relief either in her name or his name.She herself was a widow by then.