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Trying to find Henry William Lucas 1846/47

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Paul

Paul Report 21 Feb 2009 19:43

I am looking for Henry William Lucas born St Luke, Finsbury in period 1840-1850 and any reference to his father Thomas Lucas, also born in St Luke district.

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 21 Feb 2009 19:52

is this the family in 1851?
Name: Sarah Lucas
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: St Lukes, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Luke Old Street
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: St Luke
Sub registration district: Whitecross Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 146
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Lucas 40
Thomas Lucas 22
James Lucas 17
Ann Lucas 12
Samuel Lucas 10
Henry Lucas 8
Eliza Lucas 4

Sarah is down as wife to head but no husband listed

Roy

Paul

Paul Report 21 Feb 2009 20:00

Porkie Pie,
This could be the right family. 1871/1881 census entries for my Henry William Lucas point to him being born in St Luke District in around 1846/7. His marriage certificate says his father was Thomas.

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 21 Feb 2009 20:09

This looks like them in 1861 but Sarah is now down as Head and now a widow

Name: Sarah Lucas
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: St Luke, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: St Luke
Sub registration district: Whitecross Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 130
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Lucas 52
Ann Lucas 21
Samuel Lucas 18
James H Lucas 14
Elizabeth Lucas 10
Daniel Burns 30

I cannot find them on the 1841
Roy

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 21 Feb 2009 20:19

What did the marriage cert say for father thomas's occupation?

Roy

Paul

Paul Report 21 Feb 2009 20:26

Roy
The marriage certificate of Henry William Lucas and Lydia Rhoda Crebo in 1869 just said "deceased" under occupation for Thomas Lucas.

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 21 Feb 2009 20:45

Still no luck on the 1841 but their are two possible births on family search site for Thomas

THOMAS LUCAS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 26 DEC 1799

Christening: 02 FEB 1800 Saint Luke Old Street, Finsbury, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: THOMAS LUCAS Family
Mother: ANN
Messages:

Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening dateSource Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C020692 1776 - 1803 0585440 Film 6903658 Film

And

THOMAS LUCAS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 23 MAR 1796

Christening: 24 APR 1796 Saint Luke Old Street, Finsbury, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: RICHARD LUCAS Family
Mother: MARTHA

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C020692 1776 - 1803 0585440 Film 6903658 Film


Roy

Paul

Paul Report 28 Feb 2009 21:09

I may have an explanation for the absence of Thomas Lucas as head of household in 1851. A Thomas Lucas was found guilty in May 1844 at the Old Bailey of stealing in the Islington area and sent to Australia for 7 years. He may have then died before 1861 which is why Sarah Lucas is howing as a widow.

Paul

Paul Report 18 Feb 2013 15:54

It has been a few years since I started this thread. The issues that I still need to resolve are:

Was Sarah's husband called Thomas ? he doesnt appear on the 1851 census and is dead by 1861. As oldest son is called Thomas perhaps we can assume he was. Henry Lucas aged 8 appears in the 1851 census, but then is not on 1861.Where did he go? He calls himself Henry William Lucas on marriage certificate and on census entries when married. I have been unable to find a birth certificate for him. He certainly lives all of his life in the St Lukes district.
Any further assistance on this one would be gratefully received.
Also is there any way of finding out if the Thomas Lucas who was deported to Australia was linked to my family?

Paul

Paul Report 6 Mar 2013 17:43

I can add an update to say that I am not a descendant of Thomas (shoemaker) and Sarah Lucas detailed below. This is after some further research on Sarah and Thomas Lucas and talking to a GR member who has this family on their tree.

My ancestor Henry Willliam Lucas on the 1871 and 1881 census always stated his birth district as St Lukes and he died in Church Row st Lukes in 1886. His father on his 1869 marriage cert was Thomas Lucas(deceased).

There is an interesting entry on the 1841 census for St Luke Old Street district as follows:
Thomas Lucas aged 25
Rachel Lucas aged 25
Sarah Lucas aged 1
Thomas Lucas aged 1 month

They were living in Baldwin Court on Baldwin Road off City Road. This is close to other addresses where Henry Willliam Lucas or his wife-to-be lived.

The thing is I cannot find this family on the 1851 or 1861 censuses or any records for marriages or baptisms or registered births for the children..
Can anyone help as I am trying to dind a link between this family in 1841 and my Henry Willliam Lucas born around 1846/47

Paul

Paul Report 11 Mar 2013 21:57

After some help from another GR member I can say that I am not a descendant of the Thomas Lucas and Rachel Parsons who were living in St Lukes in 1841.

Now I need to try and eliminate from my enquiries the family of Thomas and Ann Lucas living in Marylebone on the 1851 census

Thomas Lucas born 1821 Lancashire
Ann Lucas born 1821 Lancashire
Thomas Lucas born 1840 Marylebone
Mary Ann Lucas born 1842 Marylebone
George Lucas born 1845 Marylebone
Henry Lucas born 1847 Marylebone

before I rush off and buy the birth certificate for Henry - who is the right age for my Henry William descendant, can anyone help find

a marriage for Thomas and Ann
a census entry for any of the family in 1861?
birth/death registrations for any of them

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 Mar 2013 21:21

The Thomas Lucas transported in 1844 was unlikely to be the father of a child born 1846/7 unless Henry William was a little older than you thought.

ADDED:

Australian Convict Transportation Registers – Other Fleets & Ships, 1791-1868
Name: Thomas Lucas
Vessel: Lord Auckland
Convicted Date: 6 May 1844
Voyage Date: 13 Jul 1844
Colony: Tasmania (Van Diemen's Land)
Place of Conviction: Old Bailey, London, England

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 Mar 2013 21:23

Given that names are very very often transposed, have you considered this birth?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Henry Lucas
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1847
Registration district: St Luke
Inferred County: London
Volume: 2
Page: 301

Paul

Paul Report 13 Mar 2013 21:28

I have got the birth certificate for that one and it is not mine - Father's name is Philip Lucas (Last Maker) and mother Mary Ann Jackson

Well I assume not mine - unless he lied about his father's name on his marriage certificate!

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 Mar 2013 21:39

Oh well, was worth a try!

Paul

Paul Report 13 Mar 2013 22:04

Going back to the 1847 OCt -Dec birth cert of William Henry Lucas in St Lukes. he was born in Great Arthur Street which is close to other addresses such as Anchor Yard where he lived in St Lukes. Except for the wrong father's name it would definitely warrant further investigation.

Paul

Paul Report 13 Mar 2013 22:19

This William Henry Lucas is down as William Lucas in the 1861 census living with his parents

Philip Lucas
Mary Ann Lucas
and sister Sarah A Lucas

in Thomas Street St Lukes.

Maybe his father became imprisoned and he switched his names around to Henry William and lied about his father's name on his marriage certificate - just a thought!

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 14 Mar 2013 08:20

I think we can eliminate him from our enquiries:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: William Henry Lucas
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Age: 24
Spouse Name: Emily Wayman
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 May 1872
Parish: Clerkenwell St John
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Philip Lucas
Spouse Father Name: Charles Wayman
Register Type: Parish Register

Paul

Paul Report 14 Mar 2013 09:43

So the only Lucas family mentioned that I have not elminated is the family of Ann and Thomas Lucas living in Marylebone in 1851 census - details above.

Paul

Paul Report 1 Apr 2013 19:25

Just to be clear, I still need to eliminate the Henry Lucas from the following family in the 1851 census:

Now I need to try and eliminate from my enquiries the family of Thomas and Ann Lucas living in Marylebone on the 1851 census

Thomas Lucas born 1821 Lancashire
Ann Lucas born 1821 Lancashire
Thomas Lucas born 1840 Marylebone
Mary Ann Lucas born 1842 Marylebone
George Lucas born 1845 Marylebone
Henry Lucas born 1847 Marylebone

I did check out a Thomas Lucas born 1841 living in Devonport born London on the 1871 census but he married a Mary Ann Duggan in 1868 and his father is down as Edward Lucas.