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1841:

1841 England Census
about William Butler
Name: William Butler
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1828
Gender: Male

Civil parish: St George in The East
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: St George in the East
Sub-registration district: St Mary
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Butler 35
Caroline Butler 30
Henry Butler 15
William Butler 13
Caroline Butler 12
Bedford Butler 10
Emily Butler 7
Edward Butler 4
Alexander Butler 2

Somehow the Butlers and Pims must be related.

Rose

They are:

HENRY CLEEVE BUTLER
Marriages:
Spouse: CAROLINE BEDFORD PIM Family
Marriage: 24 NOV 1825 Broad Clyst, Devon, England

Rose

If you look on IGI you will see that John Bedford Pim and Caroline Pim are siblings, so Ellen and William were cousins.

Rose

Colin,

I do hope you don't take 5 months to read this thread again.

Rose

HI Rose
Finally managed to open this page. 1911 census
Charles Butler head age 44 married Waste paper dealer born Peckham
Mary Butler wife 43 Bermondsey
Mary A dau 18 Single Waste paper sorter Peckham
Ernest son 16 single Carman Peckham
Arthur son 11 school Peckham
Ivy dau 8 school Peckham
Eva dau 7 school Peckham
Florence dau 1 baby Peckham
Herbert Butler Brother 35 Plasterer Peckham

Signed by Mary Butler

4 Carmell Rd Commercial Rd Peckham

Hi Rose

I have forwarded on the info you have found for us, they are very impressed with what you found as we have spent many years trying to find tis info.

Would you be prepared to see if you can find other members of the Butler family, they are,

William b 1916 & Chris b 1918 Hayward, Winifred ( nee Butler ) 1896 & William Hayward b 1896 c sons and Robert ( Bobby ) b 11 Nov 1930 Wini & Reg b 1890 c Russell's son. all born as far as I know in the Camberwell London area.

Cheers Colin

Hi Colin,

Having a problem understanding this:

"William b 1916 & Chris b 1918 Hayward, Winifred ( nee Butler ) 1896 & William Hayward b 1896 c sons and Robert ( Bobby ) b 11 Nov 1930 Wini & Reg b 1890 c Russell's son"

Can you put each person's details on a separate line and list who you think their parents were?

Rose

Hi Rose

Sorry for the confusion.

William Hayward b 1896 c head
Winifred (nee Butler) Hayward b 1896 wife
Christopher Hayward b 1916 son
William Hayward b 1918 son

Divorced i think then re married.

Reginald Russell b 1890 c head
Winifred (nee Butler Hayward ) b 1896 Russell wife
Robert Russell b 11/11/1930 son called Bobby

I hope this helps

Since you gave us the info regarding the Butler we have made contact with a distant relative who has researched the family history of them including spouses and grand parents back from William Frederick.

Colin

Hi Colin,

If you look at FreeBMD you will see there aren't births listed that match your infomation.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Rose

I think these are the births:

Births Jun 1916
Hayward William J C Butler Greenwich 1d 1834

Births Jun 1921
Hayward Frederick C Butler Camberwell 1d 165

Births Dec 1929
Hayward Robert L R Butler Camberwell 1d 917

I'm not seeing a remarriage for Winifred either. I bet one of Robert's middle names is Russell.


Rose

Here's the marriage but it's to a William J Russell

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Winifred A F Hayward
Name: Winifred A F Hayward
Spouse Surname: Russell
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1941
Registration district: Camberwell
Registration county (inferred): Surrey
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 1444
Find Spouse: William J Russell

Rose

Hi Rose

Looks like the right Winifred but as to the William I can't comment we only knew him as Reg.

As to the date of registration 1941 is this the marriage date or what, Bobby was born in 1930 but this means nothing really.

Colin

Hi Rose
I have been sent this for the marriage of my Winifred and Reginald Russell,

I've had a look on the FreeBMD site to see if he could be found but without success. However I did come across the marriage of Winnie and Reg viz:

Marriage Q1 1941
Winifred A F Hayward to Reginald Russell at Camberwell, 1d 1444.

Obviously this is 11 years after Robert Russell was supposed to be born. I took another look at the birth indexes and found the following:

Birth Q4 1929
Robert L R Hayward, mothers maiden name Butler, Camberwell, 1d 917.

However a birth of 11th November would match with this quarter - what do you think?

Colin