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thank you,, the copies show all the other people with a mark "x" but johan is not.

thank you :)

Elizabeth - If the original says something like:
Signed by mark Elizabeth Shand her X mark
- or whatever, then that's exactly what all copies should say

ywa my nan keeps mentioning this link to the bible.. its an interesting link but not sure if it would be relevant?? could be,... i am also looking at if he was a hagar before his marriage. i have done some research and have found a johann hagar, who was in germany and his family went to america.. but i htink via liverpool. i just need to see if their was a link between the two?? just a nagging doubt about the hagar and why the change..

its definalty a mystery!

The other thing that occurs to me about Hagar

Hagar was a character in the scriptures who was a concubine of Abraham while he was trying to become the father of many nations so there could be a jewish connection. The suprising thing is that she was the mother of Ishmael so the fore father of the Arabic nations.

There were many German Jews so worth a thought.

hi christine,,
yes i saw that entry for sophia and was not sure?? mmmm

In reagrds to your point about if he took his name from the refinery name? could be a possiblity? I just have no idea why the change of name and why to hagar?

I have found a johann peter hagar who was born in germany and looks like his family went to america,, I have sent a message to the tree owner on annestery to find out if this johann did not get to america? shot in the dark i think...

will have a ponder about the hagar link to the his work,, we need someone who can speak german!!

thanks again i will be back
liz

1841 census - household transcription
Person: REINECKE, Sophia
Address: Seaforth Mavis Bank, Sephton, Litherland

CONWAY, Jane F 65 1776 VIEW
HUGHES, Mary F 61 1780 VIEW
WHITBY, Lucy F 24 1817 VIEW
REINECKE, Sophia F 21 1820 VIEW
WATSON, Mary F 15 1826 Lancashire VIEW
LYON, Elizabeth F 15 1826 Lancashire VIEW
SEMPLE, Ann F 15 1826 VIEW
SMETHURST, Amelia F 15 1826 Lancashire VIEW
FISHER, Caroline F 14 1827 VIEW
BOWMAN, Elizabeth F 14 1827 VIEW
JONES, Caroline F 13 1828 Lancashire VIEW
BOWKER, Elizabeth F 14 1827 Lancashire VIEW
ZWILCHENBART, Margt F 13 1828 Lancashire VIEW
ARMSTRONG, Georgiana F 13 1828 VIEW
BLYTHE, Jane F 15 1826 Lancashire VIEW
ROYDS, Ann F 12 1829 VIEW
BROWN, Elizabeth F 12 1829 VIEW
BROWN, Sigismunda F 10 1831 VIEW
COOPER, Mary F 13 1828 VIEW
SIMONS, Margaret F 25 1816 VIEW
HOLCROFT, Margaret F 19 1822 Lancashire VIEW
MURPHY, Elizabeth F 23 1818 Lancashire VIEW
DOUGLAS, Mary F 17 1824 VIEW
WILSON, Agnes F 24 1817 Scotland

"Jager's refinery"

How would Germans say that?

Would it be Hagar?

Has he taken his name from his workplace?

thanks for the information! I can tell this is an orginal certificate as the marks are done with a cross for the witness. The husband does not have an x but the name is definatly the writing of the person who filled i the marriage certificate.

I have been doing some research into the name. I have got some information to say he may have shorted his surname? maybe from Reinecko? I have no direct link at the moment and its very very slip. Heres a link to a site which I have got a thread makes interesting reading but still nothing firm.

http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=69067#69067

again some interesting stuff¬
liz

Signatures

For a birth or death, the informant would go to the local register (or sub-register) office and register the event and sign the register.
These registers eventually wound up in the district office.

For a C of England/Wales marriage, (plus, I think, jews and quakers, but I've not seen any of these) the couple would sign the register, and a copy would be sent to the registrar. When the register got filled, I think it went to the county records office.
Before 1898, non-conformists weren't approved to keep registers, so the registrar would have to attend the marriage, and they would sign his register, along with rego office marrs that he conducted.

Every quarter, all the registers were copied, and the copy sent to the GRO.

When you ask for a certificate, until recently, a clerk in the RO or GRO (depending where you asked) would copy out the entry onto a blank form.
Nowadays, the GRO puts an image of its copy of the entry onto the form. Mostly, the local offices still work the old hand copying system, although some are changing over.
(If you buy images thru ScotlandsPeople, then you get images of the local rego - i.e., with signatures for B/Ds)

Still here


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hi, not sure if anyone is still following my quest.. still cant find johan eckeho anywere before this marriage on 8/6/1880...

Just got the marriage certificate for Johan Eckeho he was 38 and a labourer living at Tatlock street liverpool and Mary ellen barkley was 26 and also living at Tatlock street.

was this normal back in the 1880's? both living in the same house before marriage??

The witnesses john teale and catherine teale. Both marked their names with an X. I can find no trace of these people!!! at all.

Johan eckeho's father is peter eckeho but again I can find no trace of him anywhere.

Also is it normal for the man who is marrying not to sign the marriage form? I can tell that the signiature of johan is the name as written by the priest. He has not marked an "x" like all the other people on the marriage form.

mmmmmmmm

its driving me nuts... i will have to get the marriage certificate becouse i have checked german records and nothing for eckeho,,,, this is what i am told is on marriage, I can find nothing on google. nothing on the german telephone directory. nothing.

I am thinking did he make it up?? must be some trace of somthing?? i cant find the father who is said to be peter on the marriage certificate? cant find him either.

I am thinking this surname is a red herrin?years ago could they just change the name without any legal documents??


frustrated but still interested in finding out what happened!
again liz

thanks christine... I will come back to this... maybe the records office is the only way :)

thanks again liz

Ok
Call a halt for a little while.
New info is added every day.
You may need to go to the records office next.

Be patient as you have made a lot of progress.

well i have spend a week looking up johan and peter eckeno and nothing before 1880 when johan got married. mmmm i even looked to see if they had changed their name from hagar to eckeno and then back to hagar ( a bit of a shot in the dark!)

so,, i think i will be parking this bit of research as I have nothing to go on. even looked for the witnesses on the marriage certificate john and catherine teale... nothing....

mmmmmmmmmmmm
again liz

nope done some more searching this is not my my guy,,JOHN BAPTISTE ECKES.. was worth a try!!

glad i got anncestry becouse GR just not enough information to see if its the right guy!...

back to it!

again liz

think i may have found a list of him as a Merseyside Aliens and registering for citizenship?
1883 03 FEB 1881 JOHN BAPTISTE ECKES GERMANY FERN BANK, ULLET RD near LIVERPOOL

It fits in why I cant find him anywhere else and its just after the marriage? in 1880. Could they have got married if he was not registered? Why would they ask for citizenship? work? housing? mmmmmm may be a very thin thin link!

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/merseysidealiens/aliensname.htm#ECKES

going to park this and have a think!
liz

thanks christine for the advice :) yes i have been copying and pasteing to the notes as makes it easy to understnad when looking at the tree..

agree,, yes as i am new the patience will come.. emjoy the journey thats what i keep telling myself!! hahah

thanks agiain for all your help its made a massive difference to my tree and search :)

back to work liz!

I th\ink you are making great progress but be patient, Sometines people take years to desearch one person.

Definitely do not start another thread.

Anyone looking at your new thread would need to duplicate work already done on here to get background information.

Tip
cut and paste from here relevant info about each peron onto the notes section about that person on your tree.

and just to add to my frustration the spellings so far?

Ecle in the 1901 censsus
eckho in baptism records
Eckeho on the marriage certificate of mary ellen and johan
Eckhs in 1891 censsus,,,

I am losing the will to live... please must be peter somewhere? born in 1820ish from germany.. was he living with his son johan?? he must be somwhere? dead or alive!!

son Johan Eckeho definatly married in 1880 to mary ellen. chaneged their names to haga in 1901?? ish...

again a frustrated liz :(