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Hi Janey

Dumb question - is this from the 1911 census?

INSTITUTION HANCOCK RALPH 1906 5 Croydon Surrey
INSTITUTION HANCOCK WILLIAM 1901 10 Croydon Surrey

Is there any way to say what sort of institution?

That would explain where the the two boys were on that date, but |I wonder where the girl (May) was?

Perhaps she had already gone to Canada.

Regards

Yes, Brian, that was from the 1911!

I've PMed Viv with her subscription to ask her to tell us what the institution was.

I've hunted for May Doris Hancock under every permutation of name, in the English 1911 and the Canadian 1911. No luck.


My question was: does your cousin have any idea *where* in Canada she visited the aunt?

HANCOCK, Ralph M 5 1906 Scholar London Clerkenwell

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Registration District:
Croydon Sub District:
Mitcham EnumerationDistrict:
43 Parish:
Holborn Union School


I will need to view the image to tell much of what it is.
Back in a bit.

Address:
London Road Mitcham Surrey

Edit...
It has both girls and boys in the school,and that is all the extra info I can get from the image.

ta!

They're the only Hancocks with address London Road Mitcham Surrey.

Looking for the beginning of the list, where the image might give the institution name, this is the first "A" in an institution on London Road Mitcham Surrey .

INSTITUTION ANGUS JAMES M 1904 7 Croydon Surrey

Wanna see whether it does??

That one aint coming up on Find my past.

Working on it.

Ok ,same place as the Hancocks.

AYLING, Albert Inmate M 7 1904 Scholar London St Lukes

It comes under the "poor law"
Thats who the teachers and domestics say they work for/under.


Holborn Union School

Yup, Ayling was the next one on the list. ;)

So they were in Holborn Union School. For Brian: essentially an orphanage, an institution where children w/o families lived and attended school, operated by the poor law union of the district.

Thanks for all your hard work!

It looks like my early assumption that May Doris was sent to Canada because William Shorten didn’t want her may be too harsh.

If William and Ralph were living in an institution under the Poor Law in 1911 maybe he couldn’t provide for the whole family and sent her to Canada because of her age and sex to give her a better life.
The boys were older and more likely to survive.

He wasn’t to know she would have a hard life growing up in Canada.

I’ll talk to my cousin this weekend and see what she remembers.

It occurs to me that William and Alice may have sent May Doris to a relation of Williams who was already in Canada – the Uncle Bill my cousin mentioned.

In which case could this be another William Shorten from an earlier generation?

If May Doris was to become a member of a family in Canada could she have been sent under the name of Shorten ahead of William and Ralph changing their name from Hancock.

I’ve looked through the Canadian sites that Janey sent (thanks Janey) and found three Williams Shortens in the 1911 census –

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SurnameSearch.jsp?surname=shorten&province=Manitoba&description=Surname+search+in+1911+Census+of+Canada+in+province+of+Manitoba

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SurnameSearch.jsp?surname=shorten&province=Nova+Scotia&description=Surname+search+in+1911+Census+of+Canada+in+province+of+Nova+Scotia

Perhaps one is Uncle Bill?

Is there a way of finding where these three were born?

One possible ,married, but no wife with him..

11 Census of Canada
about William Shorten
Name: William Shorten
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 32
Birth Date: Nov 1878
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Roomer
Immigration Year: 1909
Tribal: English
Province: Manitoba
District: Winnipeg City
District Number: 24
Sub-District: Winnipeg
Sub-District Number: 44
Place of Habitation: 124 Harriet

Cant do more at the mo,sorry,maybe later


And as Janey asked in an earlier post..

Her question was: does your cousin have any idea *where* in Canada she visited the aunt?

Unable to talk to my Cousin at the moment.

I'll find out as soon as I can.

Hello – an update having spoken to my cousin about the link to Canada.

Mixed news; my Cousin did not go to Canada as I first understood, however she has been in contact with someone IN Canada, who rings my cousin occasionally.
This is the daughter of Uncle Bill, so may well have more information about May Doris after she arrived in Canada.
I don’t have a telephone number, but I do have an address in the Ontario area, I’m going to write and see what I can find out.

More news later, but mail to/from Canada in the Christmas period may take time.

Well, this year it was the passenger rail workers who went on strike for Christmas, not the posties, so the mail should be moving. ;)

Hey, if you want to PM me the details, I could look up the phone number and give her a call! I'm in Ontario, and my long-distance plan is 50 cents / 20 minutes. ;)

At least if you get in touch it should solve the mystery of who Uncle Bill was. Even here in Canada, I've had the same sort of thing. When I ran away to university the summer I was 16, my mum arranged for me to board (an hour from home) with an Uncle Bill and Aunt Ollie. I don't think we really knew what relation they were, they were just family of my grandfather. (They were also old and crotchety, and I was young and wild, and that lasted 2 weeks.) It wasn't until 5 years ago when I signed up for Canadian Ancestry and started digging and delving that I sorted out what our relationship was!

My you must be special Brian...
Janey has asked me to dump you some info on here as she doesnt have access to it,but I do,I know that woman only likes me for my subs !

Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1857-1924
about Hilda Louise Hancock
Name: Hilda Louise Hancock
[Hilda Louise Clark]
Birth Place: England
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Father Name: Hancock
Mother Name: Alice Berbeck
Spouse Name: Frank J Clark
Spouse's Age: 24
Spouse Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Spouse Birth Place: Hope Township
Spouse Father Name: Wesley Clark
Spouse Mother Name: Sarah Jane Badger
Marriage Date: 9 Oct 1924
Marriage Place: Durham
Marriage County: Durham
Registration district: Durham
Family History Library Microfilm: VRMCAN1923_102608




I couldnt see that the correction had been added by a public member,but maybe I look in the wrong place.?

Hi Viv

Thanks so much for your investigations.

We’ve only just ‘discovered’ Hilda.

With that discovery I’m going to summarise where we are, including some new information.
William Hancock was born in London in 1901, we know he was in the UK in 1911

1911
INSTITUTION HANCOCK RALPH 1906 5 Croydon Surrey
INSTITUTION HANCOCK WILLIAM 1901 10 Croydon Surrey

There was a younger sister May Doris born in 190X, but she doesn’t appear on the 1911 census.

There is a family story of a girl from the family being sent to Canada at a young age, so the assumption was that May Doris was that girl, sent to Canada before 1911.

We now know that William Hancock left the UK for Canada in 1921, and visited his sister Hilda living in Wallaceburg.

Hilda arrived in Canada in 1913 as an 11 year old, and married Frank J Clark before 1924.

What we don’t know –
where was William between 1911 and 1921
what happened to May Doris
Who was Hilda

I’m waiting to hear from someone I believe to be the daughter of William Hancock to see if she can give some information on William, May Doris and Hilda.

Maybe she will have family stories from Williams’ early days in the UK.

Regards

Brian

Hilda Hancock married Frank clark 9th Oct 1924 per the marrige details and if you read all the details from it you will see what her mothers name was(Alice berbeck) and that her father was Hancock.
I did look at the original image,but the fathers first name was not down,just initials that had been scored over for some reason,and I couldnt make them out,


Births Mar 1902
---------------------

HANCOCK Hilda Louisa Hackney 1b 576

This is Hilda in 1911 I do believe.
She does not appear to have other family with her.

HANCOX, Hilda Louisa Inmate F 9 1902 School Holmslow London

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Registration District:
Middlesbrough:


Address:
Lincoln Villa Westbourne Grove North Ormesby Middlesbro County:
Yorkshire (North riding)

Info FOUND BY JANEY CANUCK Re Hilda.

Taken from passenger lists on Find My Past

Name: Hilda HANCOCK
Date of departure: 12 June 1913
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Quebec, Canada
Passenger destination: Quebec, Canada

Date of Birth: 1902 (calculated from age)
Age: 11
Marital status:
Sex: Female
Occupation:
Passenger recorded on: Page 18 of 20




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
CORINTHIAN
111257
R G Bamber
Allan Line Steamship Co Ltd
Montreal, Canada
27819
5621
0

**************************************************************

Surname: HANCOCK
Given Name: Hilda
Age: 11
Sex: F
Ship: Corinthian
Year of Arrival: 1913
Departure Port: London
Departure Date: 12 June 1913
Arrival Port: Quebec
Arrival Date: 25 June 1913
Party: Dr. Barnardo's
Destination: Peterborough, Ontario
Comments: Party of 135 girls
Notes: The child's surname was illegible or difficult to decipher
Source: Library and Archives Canada/Bibliothèque et Archives Canada
Reference: RG76 C 1 a and PRO London BT 27/812 (7)
Microfilm: T-4799
Type of Record: Passenger Lists/Listes de passagers
Group of Children Traveling Together.

First, because I forgot before, thanks to Viv and Janey for their help thus far.

I can't believe how much you have managed to find out.

Second, I have just finished a phone call from the husband of Williams daughter in Canada!

He has been trying to get details of his wifes family for some time with limited success, in fact I could tell him things from this thread.
I have sent him a link to GR to look in this thread, and told him how good Janey and Viv are.

Interesting thing, although he knew about Hilda he doesn't know about May Doris.

just when you think things are getting straight ....

Occurs to me that the reason we can't find May Doris Hancock is that she died before the 1911 census.

I've tried on a couple of sites to find a death between 1903 and 1911 without any success; could you take a look for me please.

I'm sure that must be the answer.