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Hello, this is Harold and I am still involved in ancestry. Hazel we may have had contact previously. My direct email address is [email protected]. I would love to hear from you.

best regards Harry Bowe

Hazel - since the thread has been dormant for 6 y, it would be a good idea to click on Harold's name at the top of one of his posts, and send him a private message. He'll be notified that there's a message for him, providing he's still got the same email addy.

Dear Janet and Harold

I don't know if any of you still use the site,but hopefully one of you will happen to see this reply.
My ancestors are Joseph Baxter who married Elizabeth(Betty) Hellewell.
My great grandmother was Mary Edith Baxter,who was descended from these two.
I can trace my Baxter tree back a long way,but as there were lots of Mary Hellewells,born around the same time,and in the same area,it is difficult knowing where she came from.
Can anyone help,please?

Hazel

Hello Harry
Just a quick look at the family I think it will be one family. In one earlier booklet there is a Helliwell at Wicken Cross but it says Ma- which represents Marsden. The children may have been baptised at the mother's local church rather than the official church of the area ( my gt gt grandmother took 3 of hers to Horbury even though they were born in Huddersfield). As the family grew they probably swapped their abodes around to accommodate the number of children.
I still haven't bought the 1792 booklet but I have got up to 1772.
-JLe

I have purchased a number of booklets from HDFHS and pursued Janet's theory on John Hellawell, the carpenter from Slades and find there are potentially lots of children from John and Mary (Quarmby?). It does not tie up completely because they are not all from Slades Linthwaite and only 2 (Betty and Jonas) mention Mary. However they are all from John the carpenter and were christened in Longwood chapel. They also go in sequence starting wth James in 1777 which fits in Shirlocks finding from another thread of the marriage of John Hellawell and Mary Quarmby 19-6-1776 - it never made sense that Mary would be married for 16 Years before having a bunch of kids, including my Betty.
They are
1. 1777 James Helliwell -Lane Head-Longwood chapel
2. 1779 John Helliwell - Broad Oak-Longwood chapel
3. 1781 Ann Hellawell - Broad Oak-Longwood chapel
4. 1782 Joseph Hellawell-Quiken Cross-Longwood chapel
5. 1784 William Halliwell Wicken Cross-Longwood chapel
6. 1786 John Halliwell -Wicken Cross-Longwood chapel
7. 1788 Benjamin Hellowell -Wicken Cr-Longwood chapel
8. 1790 Jesse Halliwell -Wicken Cross-Longwood chapel
9. 1792 Betty Halliwell Slades-Longwood chapel
10. 1794 David Hellawell -Slades-Longwood chapel
11. 1797 Jonas Helliwell -Slades-Longwood chapel
12. 1800 George Helliwell -Slades-Longwood chapel

All different spellings of course but remember I've extracted from 5 different books and transcibers and we know our relatives couldn't spell (nothing changed there then).

So what do you experts think?. Have I taken a leap too far. I would welcome you input

Yes, but it could also Hannah Littlewood. Both are in the 1841/51 census. The George that married Hannah is a woollen weaver where yours is a coal miner - that is why I folllowed Steve Whitwam's suggestion.

I have George Baxter son of Joseph Baxter as marrying Isabella Thornton 16 May 1863 in Birstall. I have a copy of their marriage certificate.

I took Janet's advise and boughtthe booklets 1765-1778 from hdfhs and got the following.

There are 6 Mary Quarmbys

1. 6/9/1765 (father Hugh) Binns Linthwaite, Slaithwaite Chapel

2. 6/1/1767 (father Hugh) Binns Linthwaite, Slaithwaite Chapel-twin to Sarah

3. 18/2/1768 (father john) Linth Workhouse, Slaithwaite Chapel

4. 18/21/1769 (father john) Linth Workhouse, Slaithwaite Chapel

5. 8/5/1773 (father William) Hoyle House,Linthwaite , Slaithwaite Chapel

6. 8/1/1774 (father James) Moorcroft , Longwood Chapel

AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE 2 POTENTIAL HUSBANDS JOHN HELLAWELL

1 24/9/1769 (father James, clothier) Marsh Plat, Honley chapel

2. 24/9/1769 (father James, shoemaker) Hag, Honley chapel.

Matching them up is tough. Any comments would be very welcome

I like that mgnv............I rest my case.....j

Now you know what I've had to live with all these years

Not that it's really relevant to the Halliwells, but I came across a census for a Durham mining village, and there was one family there whose listed disability was they were born in Lancashire.

I think the booklets can be bought on line, if you google Hudds fhs all the details are there, ....that would save you speaking Yorkshire.

One or two of us do speak English as a first language so I think you will make yourself understood. I don't know about speaking in a Lancashire twang as we are still a bit touchy about the red rose.Its only 555 years since the war began so its still early days.- JLe

Hello Janet, can I access this hdfhs booklet on line and how - I suppose I could telephone but I would have to use my Lancashire accent, the Yorkshire dialect died with my Dad

Harold- Just another snippet. I have just had another look in the 1703- 1727 booklet and there are 9 Quarnby(sic) from Linthwaite and one which made me laugh as the vicar (trying to be correct)wrote it as Hole House Linthwaite , probably because in broad Yorkshire a hole was pronounced 'oil as in coil 'oil ( where the coal went) when in fact it should have been written as Hoyle House and it is still there today as that address.-JLe

I suppose we might all approach it in a different way. I have the added bonus of living in the area that you are researching. I am researching the surname Haigh in the Holme Valley and I am so desperate to sort it that I have taken every Haigh in an enclosed area( which includes two parishes) and try to sort out who is who, almost like doing a jigsaw but in your case there aren't that many Helliwells/Hellawells/Hellowell etc etc.The earliest transcribed booklets from the hdfhs for the Almondbury parish is1703 and as an example there are 4 Helliwells (as opposed to 131 Haighs...get my drift). I would gather the names of the same generation as your Betty Hellawell and then collect the next generation.e.g. there is an Anna Helliwell (1704)dau of Jacobi, which is James from Height, because of local knowledge (and being a nerd when it comes to addresses) I know is Linthwaite,suggesting that your family may have lived there at least another hundred years before.-jLe

Harry, I'm not going to try to jump into the middle of this and be any use, I just had to guffaw out loud instead of just to myself.

You started out with Hellawell being "such a significant name to me", and by the end of page 1 you were at "So it is not too suprising I have been lumbered with this silly name".

That was my giggle for the night -- it's reminding me of a comedy routine I can't quite get to the front of my brain, but it just seemed to kind of sum up what family history can do to one. ;)

Thanks Janet - you really are brilliant, but help me a lttle further - I don't expect you to do it for me because I won't learn. But how do I delve further into the ancestry of both John Hellawell (maybe Helliwell or Helewell) and Mary Quambry?

Best Regards Harry Bower

Hello Harold
Having read your new information on your Hellawell ancestors I decided to call at the Hudds fhs to buy the booklet containing the relevant information on Betty Hellawell,( for my own use, I hasten to add) - Steve says she was baptised on 29th Sept 1792.-.
When I got home I realised I had been given the next booklet starting 1793 so at the moment I am not able to confirm the information but a chapel of ease at Longwood seems quite likely. If I were to query anything, just a tiny issue. In the census of 1851 Betty is 58 and 1861 is 68. Suggesting her birthdate was after April 1st. Normally baptisms took place within weeks of a childs birth whereas this Betty would have been a full six months old when she was baptised at the end of September.
If however the information is 100% correct in this next booklet are two siblings of Betty- David Hellawell bapt 16 11 1794 and Jonas Hellawell bapt18 09 1798 both sons of John - Carpenter of Slades Linthwaite- Good luck with your continued search-Jle

I do now have a detailed response from Steve Whitwam and he claims (and he does have undoubted credibility) that my Betty's parents were in fact John Hellawell and Mary Quarmby so I am going to redirect accordingly but any help would still be appreciated.

Steve writes

1. JOSEPH BAXTER born 1789, LINTHWAITE, occupation WOOLLEN WEAVER, married 02 DEC 1811, in ALMONDBURY PARISH CHURCH, BETTY HELLAWELL, born 1792, SLADES LINTHWAITE, baptised 29 SEP 1792, ALMONDBURY PARISH CHURCH (LONGWOOD), (daughter of JOHN HELLAWELL and MARY QUARMBY) died NOV 1864, COWLERSLEY LINTHWAITE, buried: 03 NOV 1864, LINTHWAITE PARISH CHURCH. JOSEPH died SEP 1853, SMITH RIDING LINTHWAITE, buried: 04 SEP 1853, LINTHWAITE PARISH CHURCH. LIVING AT SMITH RIDING LINTHWAITE 1841, 1851 DIED AGED 64 YEARS BETTY: LIVING AT STORTH LINTHWAITE 1861 WIDOW DIED AGED 73 YEARS

Children:

2. i MARY BAXTER born 1816.

ii HANNAH BAXTER born 1820, COWLERSLEY LINTHWAITE, baptised 19 NOV 1820, SLAITHWAITE PARISH CHURCH.

iii ELIZABETH BAXTER born 1823, LINTHWAITE, baptised 25 DEC 1823, SLAITHWAITE PARISH CHURCH.

iv EMMA BAXTER born 30 MAY 1831, SMITH RIDING LINTHWAITE, baptised 19 SEP 1841, LONGWOOD PARISH CHURCH.

v JOSEPH BAXTER born 1833, LINTHWAITE.

3. vi GEORGE BAXTER born 1836.



Second Generation



2. MARY BAXTER (1.JOSEPH1) born 1816, COMMON END LINTHWAITE, baptised 05 JUN 1816, SLAITHWAITE PARISH CHURCH, married (1) (NOT MARRIED), (UNKNOWN), married (2) 16 APR 1843, in HUDDERSFIELD PARISH CHURCH, JAMES SHAW, born 1820, LONGWOOD, baptised 18 DEC 1820, SALENDINE NOOK BAPTIST CHURCH, (son of JAMES SHAW and BETTY LEECH) occupation ENGINEER WOLN MILL, died POST 1901, MILNSBRIDGE GOLCAR ?. OF GOLCAR DAU OF JOSEPH CLOTHIER WHEN MARRIED IN 1843 JAMES: LIVING AT LONGWOOD GATE 1851, TOP OF ING 1861, 1871 ENGINE DRIVER WOLN MILL WHEN MARRIED SON OF JAMES SHAW SPINNER LIVING AT CLOUGH BOTTOM LONGWOOD 1891 SHOPKEEPER & WIDOWER LIVING WITH SON JOHN AT 6 GEORGE ST MILNSBRIDGE GOLCAR 1901

Children by (UNKNOWN):

4. i ELLEN ELIZA ANN BAXTER born 1839.

Children by JAMES SHAW:

5. ii JOHN HELLAWELL SHAW born 1843.



3. GEORGE BAXTER (1.JOSEPH1) born 1836, LINTHWAITE, occupation WOOLLEN WEAVER/SPINNER, married 25 JUL 1863, in HUDDERSFIELD REGISTER OFFICE, HANNAH LITTLEWOOD, born 1834, HOLMFIRTH. WITH MOTHER IN 1861 UNMARRIED LIVING AT CHAPEL HILL HUDDERSFIELD 1871, 1881 MARRIAGE ANNOUNCEMENT IN HUDS WKLY EXAMINER BOTH OF LINTHWAITE

Children:

i JOE BAXTER born 1864, LOCKWOOD.



Third Generation



4. ELLEN ELIZA ANN BAXTER (2.MARY2, 1.JOSEPH1) born 1839, LINTHWAITE, married (NOT MARRIED), (UNKNOWN). ELLEN died POST 1861. WITH MOTHER AT LONGWOOD 1861

Children:

i SARAH JANE BAXTER born 1859, LONGWOOD. WITH GRANDPARENT SHAW AT LONGWOOD 1871



5. JOHN HELLAWELL SHAW (2.MARY2, 1.JOSEPH1) born 1843, LONGWOOD, occupation TAILOR, married 1870, MARY ANN, born 1844, CROYDEN SURREY, died POST 1911, MILNSBRIDGE GOLCAR ?. JOHN died POST 1911, MILNSBRIDGE GOLCAR ?. LIVING AT 6 GEORGE ST MILNSBRIDGE GOLCAR 1891, 1901 LIVING AT 36 GEORGE ST MILNSBRIDGE 1911 RETIRED TAILOR

Children:

6. i MARY LOUISA SHAW born 1886.

7. ii JAMES EDWARD SHAW born 1873.



Fourth Generation



6. MARY LOUISA SHAW (5.JOHN3, 2.MARY2, 1.JOSEPH1) born 1886, LOCKWOOD, married SEP QTR 1908, in HUDDERSFIELD DISTRICT, HAROLD BOWER, born 1887, NESEDENT GERMANY, (son of EDGAR BOWER and ELIZA HANSON) occupation WOOLLEN WEAVER. HAROLD: LIVING WITH PARENT'S IN LAW IN 1911 IN MILNSBRIDGE

Children:

i JACK FINCH BOWER born 1909, MILNSBRIDGE GOLCAR.



7. JAMES EDWARD SHAW (5.JOHN3, 2.MARY2, 1.JOSEPH1) born 1873, WOOLWICH KENT, occupation WOOLLEN WEAVER, married MARY E., born 1866, GOLCAR. LIVING AT 27 GEORGE STREET MILNSBRIDGE LONGWOOD 1901

Children:

i LILLY DORIS SHAW born 1896, MILNSBRIDGE LONGWOOD.

Harry, unless you find some other piece of information like a will that names her or she's mentioned in Parish Council minutes, I don't think there is any way you can be very sure.

Ozi