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just sent off for the marriage certificate
and I also think that the 22nd JAN AND 22ND JUNE are perhaps more than coincidental.

Hi to everyone that have been watching and adding to my post. First of all, I need to apologise for not being on for a couple of weeks, but I have been waiting for information to come back to me and have had nothing until today that would've made any sense.
Great News!!!! Things seem to have fallen into place. First of all the Marriage cert of John Henry Thompson (grandfather) to Winnifred Margaret Owens 6th April 1925 matched to the right name given on my fathers marriage cert to my mother for his fathers name as John Henry. Secondly my Fathers birth cert for the 22nd June 1927 Cardiff was registered by his mother (my grandmother) Winnifred Thompson (formerly Owen) and both certs have the address of 28 Augusta street, Cardiff THAT IS MY FATHERS BIRTH CERT AND MY GRANDFATHERS MARRIAGE CERT.
Thirdly, the merchant navy paperwok from the national archives arrived this morning, and where in fact it did say at first that the DOB was22nd Jan 1927, on the actual paperwork it did in fact have the date of birth as being the 22nd of June 1927 Cardiff so everything has fallen into place.
Along with the merchant Navy papers etc was a photograph of my father on his id book. It is the first photo I have ever seen of him and an unbelievable feeling came over me. Difficult to explain. But I know what is not difficult to explain, and that is my gratitude to all of you that have taken time out to help me to get to this point. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you all very much.
I am going away on holiday as of the 22nd may for 2 weeks, but when I get back, I would like to see if I can find out anymore info on where my father is/has been since his departure from my life and would greatly welcome any help from you kind people. Once again Thank you all very much.
For now Phil Thompson

Fantastic result. So happy for you. So many great researchers on here. I've had no part in it , but have watched it unfold.

Catherine

Philip
Thank you for the update.
What a great outcome. I'm so pleased for you that it has all fallen into place.

I can begin to understand a little of your feeling at seeing a photo in with the Merchant seamen papers. My husband had a similar experience when we found a photo of his maternal grandfather on his seaman card.

Good luck with the rest of your searches.

Gwyn

That's really terrific to read about, and we do appreciate hearing outcomes like this. Thanks, and we'll all be happy to help more later.

Hello Philip,
My heart goes out to you. I'm glad you got there in the end. As for a photograph; just a couple of months ago I received the first picture of my mum ever, so I do know how you felt.
Well done to all.
Bye
Paul

I'm afraid I can't resist (seeing as how I found the marriage and all ;) )

Name: Winifred Margaret Thompson
Birth Date: 29 Apr 1900
Death Registration Month/Year: Jan 1985
Age at death (estimated): 84
Registration district: South Glamorgan
Inferred County: South Glamorgan
Volume: 28
Page: 2287

?

I don't see a matching birth for Winifred/Winnifred Margaret Owen/Owens, though.

You'll need to tell us the spouse's ages and fathers' names from the Owens-Thompson marriage certificate when you return.

Wonderful news Philip!

I had to read back through the thread to acquaint myself with all the details.

You now have some uncles and aunts to trace.

Rose

Thank you all for your kind words.

Janey,
Winnifred Margaret Owens age given on her marriage cert was 23 years old. There is a Winnifred Margaret Owens birth registered in 1901, Apr/ May June /Vol No 6a / Vol Page 534 that looks like a probable match ?

Philip, you really need to do the copy&paste thing.


Births Jun 1901
OWENS Winnifred Weobley 6a 534


No Margaret there.

But it could still be her!

Do you not think the death record I pasted is likely, though?


How about Mr Thompson's age at marriage? Witnesses' names?


edit - I seem to have missed this one, perhaps the most likely to match the age on the marriage certificate:

Births Jun 1901
OWENS Winifred Margaret Holyhead 11b 506


It is not at all uncommon for death records to be a year or two out on the date of birth (often with the date itself correct) -- my grandfather believed all his life he was born 15 Dec 1900; when he applied for a birth certificate on retirement he found he was born on 17 Dec 1901.

Win(n)ifred is like Lil(l)ian too -- people often used the variant spelling, even the people whose name it was.

Mr Thompsons age at marriage was 26 years old, (John Henry Thompson)
Lived at 28 Augusta Street Cardiff.
His Fathers name given on marriage cert as Robert Thompson (deceased)

Winnifred Margaret Owens age given on marriage cert as 23 years old.
Lived at 62, Station Road, Barry. (Wales I take it ?)
Her Fathers name given as John Owens (deceased)

Witnesses names are J Flay ? and K Phillips ? (not much there)
The death record you posted Janey looks very likely.
(I don't know how to do this copy & paste thing at the moment, I am new to this computer business,) (but I consider myself told off)

Call me cynical, but I always get suspicious when the father is " John, deceased" on a wedding cert.

Rose

John Henry Thompson aged 23 in 1925 -- did not have the decency to be born by the 1911 census. D*n his eyes!

But Rose -- it was Robert, and not the same as John's own name (the John with father John, or James with father James, deceased, is indeed suspicious), so it could be true!


Editing because I'm a complete moron.

I go crazy every time doing the arithmetic -- in 1925 he could have been just turned 23 so born anytime before/after ... or about to be 24 so anytime before/after ...

But I usually get the decade right. He would have been born 1901-1903 or something, not 1911-1913.


Anyhow, it's still pretty hopeless, I fear.

Janey,

I was referring to Winnifred's father.

Also, the marriage was in 1923 and JHT was 26, so born c1896/1897.

Rose

I'm pretty sure it works out to could have been born

late April 1901 at the earliest
early April 1902 at the latest

to be 23 in April 1925 -- if that was true.

So Q2 1901 to Q2 1902

and these are the possibles

[deleted because I had the age at marriage wrong, aargh]

Anybody check this one out in 1911?

[deleted because I had the age at marriage wrong, aargh]

I get you on the John now, Rose.

However, the marriage wasn't 1923 --

"First of all the Marriage cert of John Henry Thompson (grandfather) to Winnifred Margaret Owens 6th April 1925"

but you're right about the age --

"Mr Thompsons age at marriage was 26 years old"

so we're both obviously going nuts.

Aargh.

If he was just turned 26 in April 1925
he could have been born in Q2 1899.

If he was almost 27 in April 1925
he could have been born in Q2 1898.

Still no glaringly obvious birth:

Births Sep 1898
THOMPSON John Henry Worksop 7b 50
Births Mar 1899
Thompson John Henry Gainsbro' 7a 692
Births Jun 1899
Thompson John Henry Hexham 10b 382
Thompson John Henry Ecclesall B. 9c 491
Thompson John Henry Aston 6d 328


But there's this death ...

Deaths Sep 1901
Thompson Robert David 28 Cardiff 11a 156

The only marriage for that name 1891-1901 is

Marriages Jun 1901
Hayes Rose Jane St. Olave 1d 345
MISKIN Florence Elizabeth St. Olave 1d 345
Robbins Walter George St. Olave 1d 345
Thompson Robert David St. Olave 1d 34


No birth for a Robert David Thompson anytime around 1873 though. Two Robert Thompsons in Cardiff in the 1901, one born in Cardiff married to Ellen, one born in the US married to Mabel, neither with a son John.

How about

Name: John H Thompson
Death Registration Month/Year: 1948 oct-nov-dec
Age at death (estimated): 49
Registration district: East Glamorgan
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 311

= born by Q4 1899 if just turned 49, no earlier than Q4 1898 if almost 50 at death.

Which overlaps with
Q2 1898 to Q2 1899
by
Q4 1898 to Q2 1899

if this were an exact science and if I didn't make a hash of it half the time.

Hi people,
Janey and Rose
I'll have to look into your last thoughts a bit later on.
Would still like to go down the road of looking into my fathers past (warts and all), but wouldn't know where to start!
As I've said in an earlier message, I am away on holiday as of this Saturday 21st May for 2 weeks but would appreciate any help, especially from those who have done so much already!!!