Find Ancestors

No - you have to download the programme

As she says it should open with Windows...???

it is a gno file that needs the software - and it doesn't work on a mac - and we are an apple house now

:-D :-D :-D

Christopher I had no more success than you opening the file...
It opens but there is just a blank page of squares.....

And this is the posting from a lady in Donegal who may be linked but is into this kinda thing - forget the Australian thing - she mapped it out on a gno file - but as i am on a mac can't open it


Hi Chris,

I had a look at all the Australian records you sent me. These appear to be connected with the Sligo Motherwells which I don't think are closely related to the family you are researching. Perhaps a few generations earlier? But aren't the Australian records great?

I am attaching the Motherwell family tree that I did up, for you to have a look at.
The programme I use for recording is Genopro. You can download it free from here http://www.genopro.com/free/ If you click on the archive link at the bottom of this page and download 1.70 which is 2000, you should be able to open my attachment. However, it only will open on a PC with Windows, not Apple. If you double click on some of the names on the tree, I have added the source of information or little notes. Let me know if you have any problems with it as I can send you a view only option.

I have added all the early records I could get to see if I could make any sense of it all. Please note that the family order is only my opinion. I have no hard and fast evidence to suggest this is accurate but I will explain my reasoning behind it.

Firstly I believe William's wife, Catherine must have been Caldwell and probably a daughter of Thomas Caldwell of Garshuey who died 1800. The name Caldwell features a lot in the children and grandchildren, as does the name Thomas.

Going with the naming theory, that the first son and daughter were usually named after the father's parents and the second son and daughter after the mother's parents, I think this is pretty much followed by this family.

I believe that William, Thomas, James, Margaret, John and Caldwell are all children of William and Catherine. In this land record http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/raphoefreeholders.htm it states that William, James, John and Caldwell were all residing in Leitrim.

Re James, I think when his uncle James of Tonagh died, James (2nd) was in line for taking over this farm as his older brother William was probably to get Leitrim, the next brother, Thomas had died and so this left James to get Tonagh. John got Garshuey and Caldwell got Monglass.

Re naming of James's children, the first 3 we believe were girls and as we don't know what Elizabeth Dowd's mother's name was, we can only guess there was a Susan somewhere in the Dowds family? It is interesting though that he named his son William Alexander, another reason to believe he was a son of William of Leitrim. I also think there was probably other siblings who may have died.

This then brings me to James Caldwell Risk. I think he must be a descendant of James (1st) Motherwell and Mary Caldwell of Tonagh. There is no Catherine in his family and Mary and Ann feature high in the naming list.

The William Motherwell to the left on his own, I think may be William son of William and Catherine but I'm not sure. This is why I left him on his own with a possible link to the other William (arrow).

Anyway, that's my theory on it to date. I will probably change my mind on it sometime again. You will also probably have your own theory on it and I would welcome your thoughts.I will add the rest of the family soon as I think it may give us and indication which family members we can follow up, especially Caldwell's family.

a lot has happened since we last interacted - including a trip to donegal and visiting the

The James Risk thing is perhaps a second cousin.

the problem with the above girl is that age might be about right - but i have a Sarah Motherwell (with james as the father...) marrying William robinson. I am on their trail now and may have found someone with a tree with hre in (last couple of days......

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Christopher...Hope you realise you have destroyed my weekend..!

I thought you must have sorted these "families" by now....

Didnt realise how much had been found until I looked back over all the postings...sleepless nights again...

Have had a look around for info.on your other thread and all the family seems to have settled in Sonamo.....however forgot about James Motherwell (Philly) and had a root around....found this....

Name: Sarah Motherwell
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 18 Feb 1864
Event Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Gender: Female
Race: White
Age: 26
Birth Year (Estimated): 1838
Birthplace: Ireland
Marital Status: Single
She died of Typhoid Fever place of Death Lafyette

Linked....................

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1333254

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1322595

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1274012

Hi

I have discovered that a margaret motherwell (with father james) married william park. can't find any digital footprint in Uk after that - so suspect may have left country.

Have a census from family search in new york in 1870 which list william and margaret park and some other Parks.

Looking for an help to see if anybody can track them in later census

Michelle

have sent you a message

cheers

Hello all,
I am researching this family as well but my maiden name is Motheral. There are some Motherwells mixed in with (what I believe is my group line) in Burt, Ireland. This family was from Scotland. Many records there but they are all over the board in terms of surname spelling. I have been to some of these places myself. Majority of them seem to center around the Kilsyth area. Christopher, I tried emailing you yesterday. Maybe we can work together on this thing!

Michelle
in Texas ;-)

Apols - i meant that i always new about Edith May (and who here mother was) - and she is on GR.

Interestingly i have just discovered another g Granddaughter of Susan Motherwell on GR (one of Catherine Watson daughters grandchildren. She doesn't know that much

Afternoon Christopher...

Well I dont know where you found a Susan Motherwell listed on GV.....I cannot locate her...
I have Margaret Motherwell who never married died aged 60 and left her bits and pieces to James "Caldwell" Risk (her nephew) now here's another complication...
James Caldwell Risk(above) was the son of James Risk and married a Sarah MOTHERWELL Donaghy daughter of David...dont you just love it..!! (Taughboyne 1852)

I am after thinking that the "Caldwell" is a second surname......

Thanks Erin

Thanks again for your efforts.

I had seen the Lease thing before (through Googling) and it is too much of a coincidence. If you look at Ballbigley/Gartsuey [Garshooey]/Kildrum - they are are all very very very close. Additionally - on Griffiths - there is a Susan Motherwell who owns a property nearby (this is all 1857 at the time of the wedding.

They had several Children - in this order i think.

Ireland

Catherine - 1858/9
Samuel - die as a teen 1858/9 or 7??
Maybe another one

Greenock

Martha
Elizabeth
Robert - went to cananda??
Marth 1880 (the other one died in 1879)
Samuel - the one born in Ireland died)

If you go back up the thread - Catherine (who i think may have been the oldest - married a man called Macfadyen (1880) - he died 1886 - she then marries Mr May (1887) - she has more kids (including Edith May 1904 Annan). She marries Mr Mair - and they have a son in Birkenhead (1935) - who in turn has amongst other things a daughter called Deborah Mair (who is now Williamson). the point of this is that i think they have conducted research and have the 'family bible'. But where they are - i haven't a clue.

The point of all this - is that between their wedding adn leaving for Greenock (3-4 years - they had kids so there must be some record?

Evening Christopher....Forget "Tursty"...an error on my part....had my mind on other things at the time..!!

If you look back at Mauras reponse on the thread you will see she gives you details of where you can view the marriage of Samuel Watson and Susan Motherwell....it is a site where you need to Reg and you can download the docs.(pay per view.....) as Maura states they were Church of Ireland.
Both Caldwell Motherwell and John Motherwell were Landowners and if you check out the web site I gave you you can see the Wills ....David Caldwell Motherwell was the son of Caldwell Motherwell....
The Motherwells were also related to the Risks. ..(thats another line..)....
I havent been able to find any Motherwell Births predating...Caldwell Motherwell (1800)
The Motherwells were more than likely Scottish Undertakers (not funeral directors !!) as they were granted lands back into the late 1600's and early 1700's and there were Wills listed (Not avaliable now) for 1700's

This is a rather interesting piece of info...(assuming it is the correct "Watson")

John Motherwell Gartsuey in the Parish of All Saints leased to Samuel Watson of Ballybigley for 1 life or 21 years land at 44sts. per annum ( Sterling Shillings)...April 1859

I realise the above is not really helping find the parents of Susan but it is necessary to dig deep to maybe find a key...

Have also found land deed and titles for John ...1848..St Johnstown
James...1767 Leitrim
There was also a James on the Abercorn Estate in the Laggan Valley...Tonagh.
He bought his land (1793) from a Wm Colhoun who obtained it from a George Carey (in payment of a debt)

EDIT...The Samuel Watson... Ballybigley .was not husband of Cath Mclaughlan so could not have been father of Sam.

All very interesting stuff...

also - what is Tursty?

ta erin

Which church do you think it was? the other point of ongoing frustration for me and my Mum (and we are both rank beginners) is that the proof of the marriage is from the LDS as well as a pice of paper that my mum has seen which is a 'copy' of the original. Long long story - this was gleaned forty years ago - and i think it is merely a typed up sheet with the information from the original (I will find out shortly as i have written to a 93 year old relative who has the piece of paper) - the pint of this ramble is that it talks about the parish church in all saints parish - wonder where this is - but fits with the Motherwell grouping in three parishes

what makes you think that one of them did well

Frustrating ...well yes...but as far I can tell the your Motherwell's and variation on transcription were from Donegal and there is a James listed for the area 1829..so assuming they were all related....James John Caldwell and William (wont go back as far as Tursty at the moment) ....
John, Caldwell and Wm stayed in the area Caldwell became prosperous..!!
James had 3 daughters attributed to him according to their respective marriages
Margaret 1851 to Wm Park.
Sarah 1853 to Wm Robinson
I have looked at both of these families and some of their respective children ...none named Susan..that I can find ...which I find rather odd given most families followed the trad.naming pattern.

There is something I cant quite figure out and I dont even know if it was any relativity to your tree but "Caldwell" was Caldwell "Alexander" Motherwell...now was that a second surname or a second Christian name...(only finding his parents would show that.)...The point is I have found a Susanna Alexander married to a William Motherwell in Co Kildare...
If James was deceased when Susan married Sam.then it should have on the Cert.deceased..there would also need to be a letter of permission by her guardian noted in the Church Register....may be worth trying to get a copy to see who her guardian was...

Hi Erin

Thanks for your considerable efforts - this may be a tough if not impossible one

Susan Motherwell Watson DC has her parents as James (farmer) and susan (no maiden name).- she died in Greenock (1919)

The premise of her coming from Donegal/Kildrum is family folklore and also the wedding certifcate. that said i am realising the obvious - that is there is no proof she was born there. An irish birth was that of samuel - 1857 ish - who died in 1875 (Greenock) - i have seen his DC. Is there any trace of his birth in Donegal I am now wondering. .

The three Greenock Births that you mention are later Children - the earlier ones (are from family folkore) from Donegal (Samuel - 1857-1875) catherine (1861 - ended up in England - her offspring are the ones with the family bible that i am trying to trace (Mair's).

The interesting thing for me is that no birth records can be found for the three mariages with James Motherwell as father - which suggest that (1) they were born out of ireland, (2) the records are not there or (3) they were not recorded. Clearly the Marriage is recorded for Susan and Samuel (with James as the father) and is supported by her DC with James as Father.

I am starting to think that when they came to Greenock they may have spun a tale and kept to it.... probably not but who knows

all very frustrating

Christopher...I have been unable to find any Baptism Records in the whole of the Island of Ireland for any of three Motherwell girls listed above...Mgt/Sarah/Susan which makes me wonder if they were perhaps born in Scotland...the surname/variations are plenty.
Susan Motherwell Watsons' Death Cert should have her parents names on it...
Other than the three children I have listed for Sam and Susan who else was there...?
Was there any connection between James Motherwell and Catherine Connell (Greenock)..?