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Can anyone please assist me in finding more information on surnames Orris and Davies?

My Gt Grandmother Ethel Minnie Orris (Payn) 1883-1975 Born Bow, London Married Charles Albert Payn June 1911. Lost all children apart from my grandfather Stanley Albert Payn 1914-1995

Her father Frederick Orris Jnr known as Fred 1849-1901c Born (I think Norwich, Norfolk) Married 1880 Elizabeth Davies known as Eliza. b1858c died? I think she was born in Wales. Her mother Mary Davies? 1817c?

His father (I think) Frederick Henry Orris Snr 1827c died? Born Norwich, Norfolk. Married Elizabeth S ???? Born 1826c died? If he is the correct relation to the above name, he had siblings Robert 1816c, Elizabeth 1817c, Alfred 1830c.

I have put the details of Frederick H Orris Snr 1827c in my tree, but now things are starting to go pear shaped. His wife I cannot find her maiden name, I have looked everywhere.

I am starting to pull my hair out.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you

Jane Hayler

for reference 1901 census:

Name: Ethel Orris
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: E Orris
Gender: Female
Where born: SE; Bow, London, England

Civil parish: Horselydown
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Olave, Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 234
Piece: 386
Folio: 103
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
E Orris 42
Ethel Orris 19
Frederick Orris 16
Florence Orris 8
Stanley Orris 3

Possible death of Frederick Orris:

Deaths Mar 1901 (>99%)
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Orris Frederick (age) 48 Dartford 2a 353

Year of birth 1853 ??

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Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
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Howell Elizabeth Sinclair Ely 3b 933
Orris Frederick Henry Ely 3b 933

1861>>>Name: Frederick H Orris
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth S Orris
Gender: Male
Where born: Hindringham, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Norwich St Clement
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: Coslany
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 1210
Folio: 25
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick H Orris 35
Elizabeth S Orris 35
Emily Orris 10
Frederick Orris 12
Florence R Orris 8
Elizabeth J Orris 6
Susan Lish 20

Frederick Orris aged 12 in the census above (1861) doesn't fit with the death in 1901 which would indicate that he was born in 1853!!!

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941
about Frederick Henry Orris
Name: Frederick Henry Orris
Probate Date: 8 Nov 1867
Death Date: 23 Sep 1867
Death Place: Norwich, Norfolk, England
Registry: Norwich

(late of City of Norwich, Surgeon. Proved by Elizabeth Sinclair Orris Widow, Sole Executrix. Effects under £200)

Chris :)

He is not on the 1851 census and his age is in the wrong place so I think he was born 1853 not 1849

Not seeing a birth for him for either year

This could be the daughter Elizabeths birth that would give mothers maiden name

Births Dec 1854 (>99%)
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Orris Elizabeth Jane Norwich 4b 106

For info:

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1907
ORRIS Elizabeth Sinclair 84 Mutford 4a 759


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941

Name: Elizabeth Sinclair Orris
Probate Date: 30 Sep 1907
Death Date: 27 Feb 1907
Death Place: Lowestoft, Suffolk, England
Registry: London

Late of 25 Marine Parade, Lowestoft. Left £65 10s to Elizabeth Jane Vincent (wife of John Abraham Vincent).

Name: Elizabeth Sinclair Orris
Probate Date: 30 Sep 1907
Death Date: 27 Feb 1907
Death Place: Lowestoft, Suffolk, England
Registry: London
Effects: £65 10s
Probate to Elizabeth Jane Vincent (wife of John Abraham Vincent)

Marriage of Frederick Orris to Eliza Davies:
Name: Frederick Henry Orris Occupation: Mariner
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Spouse Name: Eliza Davies
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 11 Dec 1880
Parish: St Saviour
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Frederick Henry Orris (Deceased - Surgeon)
Spouse Father Name: Ebenezer Davies (Deceased - Stoker)

Journal of Her Majesty's Ship Bristol for 1 November 1865 to 31 December 1866 by Fleetwood Buckle, MD, Acting Assistant Surgeon, during which time the said ship was serving on the West Coast of Africa Station. (Described at item level)

December 1866, sent to hospital; Frederick Orris, aged 18, Boy 1st Class, sprained ankle.

Wonder why they did'nt marry earlier? were either married before perhaps?

jax

Marriages Jun 1881 (>99%)
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ORRIS Elizabeth Jane Mutford 4a 1203

VINCENT John Abraham Mutford 4a 1203

Thank you everybody who has sent me more details.

Ethel Minnie Orris marriage:

Name: Ethel Minnie Orris
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Spouse Name: Charles Albert Payn
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 04 Jun 1911
Parish: St Mark, Walworth
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Frederick Howiel Orris (Deceased - Seaman)
Spouse Father Name: George Payn

Some births: information taken from ancestry

Ethel Minnie Orris 3 May 1886 Frederick Henry Orris,
Lizzie Orris Horselydown St John Southwark
Frederick John Orris 3 May 1886 Frederick Henry Orris,
Lizzie Orris Horselydown St John Southwark
Florence Lizzie Orris 18 May 1892 Frederick Henry Orris,
Lizzie Orris Horselydown St John Southwark
Stanley Frank Orris 8 Feb 1905 Frederick Henry Orris,
Elizabeth Orris Horselydown St John Southwark

Yeah I was thinking that. They had all their children before they married ??

Lynn,

I have completely different birth dates for
Ethel Minnie Orris 3 May 1886 Frederick Henry Orris,
Lizzie Orris Horselydown St John Southwark
Frederick John Orris 3 May 1886 Frederick Henry Orris,
Lizzie Orris Horselydown St John Southwark
Florence Lizzie Orris 18 May 1892 Frederick Henry Orris,
Lizzie Orris Horselydown St John Southwark
Stanley Frank Orris 8 Feb 1905 Frederick Henry Orris,
Elizabeth Orris Horselydown St John Southwark

1911 census:

ORRIS, Ellen Head Widow F 54 1857 Charwoman Wales N K VIEW
ORRIS, Ethel Minnie Daughter Single F 27 1884 Kitchen Hand Horsleydown Bermondsey London VIEW
ORRIS, Frederick John Son Single M 25 1886 Passenger Liftman Horsleydown Bermondsey London VIEW
ORRIS, Florance Lizzie Daughter Single F 18 1893 Kitchen Hand Out Of Employment Horsleydown Bermondsey London VIEW
ORRIS, Stanley Frank Son M 13 1898 School Horsleydown Bermondsey London VIEW
PAYNE, Charles Albert Visitor Single M 24 1887 Milk Roundsman Peckham London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2529 Reference:
RG14PN2529 RG78PN85 RD27 SD4 ED10 SN490

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
St George Enumeration District:
10 Parish:
Camberwell

Address:
8 Cunard Street Camberwell SE County:
London

Is there anyway that the siblings (I mentioned above) of Frederick Henry Orris Snr 1827c, can be confirmed. I am assuming that Frederick Orris b1827 and Frederick Orris b 1849 or 1853 ?? are father and son ????

1841

Name: Frederic Orris
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Gender: Male
Where born: Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Hindringham
Hundred: North Greenhoe
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Walsingham
Sub-registration district: Walsingham
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 772
Book: 6
Folio: 17
Page Number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Orris 25
Frederic Orris 16
Alfred Orris 11
Robert Girdleston 17
Margaretta Girdleston 23
Elizabeth Long 20
Sarah Ann Coe 26


It looks like they are father and son but his birth may not have been registered

His middle name seemed to be Howell which adds up with the 1864 marriage

this census above does not give relationships but the could well be his siblings