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http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1311219

yes this is my elizabeth but she was not born in Staley Bridge janet

Hi everybody l still have not found Joseph he seem to have got lost on the records Janet

Good to see you back, Janet.

So do you need any more info, or are you confirming what was found?

Ozi

Hi every body thanks for your help l am sorry for my mistakes l am not very good at this l will start again my great grandmother Elizabeth married Alexander Dewar on 29th July 1886 Alexander was a house painter Elizabeth was a jute worker but when she married she was a domestic servant she lived at 42 Hull Road Blackpool her father was Joseph Ryles Alexander lived at 13C Island Road Barrow in furness they got married at The Methodist New Connexion Church Barrow in furness Alexander father was Duncan Dewar Grace Chapman they had 9 childern I hope this is a bit clear Janet

hi to all of you who has helped me, sorry l made a mistake with elizabeth marries she was married to alexander dewar maud was born before they got married so maud was a ryles l get a bit muddle with all the names janet

Births Mar 1887
Dewar Duncan Prestwich 8d 401

Births Mar 1889
Dewar Grace Lilian Salford 8d 62

Deaths Jun 1903
Dewar David Talbot 12 Barrow F. 8e 546

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1891
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DEWAR David Talbot Barrow Barrow RYLES B/54/427

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1893
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DEWAR Margaretta Barrow Barrow RYLES B/62/327

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1895
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DEWAR Neil Boyd Barrow Barrow RYLES B/68/213

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1898
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DEWAR Florence Irene Barrow Barrow RYLES B/79/333

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1901
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DEWAR Phyllis Barrow Barrow RYLES B/90/230

Yup.

Here's 1901 for Maud's family. There's 6 children here + Maud who's a servant away from home.

1901 England Census
Name: Alexander Dewer
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Dewer
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Barrow in Furness
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:Sloop St 2E

Occupation: Painter - Shipyard

Registration district: Barrow in Furness
Sub-registration district: Barrow in Furness

Piece: 4016
Folio: 112
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Dewer 39
Elizabeth Dewer 37
Duncan Dewer 14 - Office Boy Ship Yd; born Manchester, Lancashire
Grace Dewer 12 - born Manchester, Lancashire
David Dewer 10
Madge Dewer 7
Neil Dewer 6
Irene Dewer 2



1901 England Census
Name: Maud Dewar
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Barrow, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Barrow in Furness
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Occupation: Servant

Registration district: Barrow in Furness
Sub-registration district: Barrow in Furness

Piece: 4012
Folio: 9
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
John T Leech 38
Elizabeth Leech 38
George A Leech 15
May Leech 10
Laura W Leech 6
John H Leech 2
Maud Dewar 16

the David from Jan's 1891 census

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1891
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DEWAR David Talbot Barrow Barrow RYLES B/54/427

so Elizabeth probably was born as Ryles

that 1891 fits with the 1881 I posted too - joiner to buider's foreman sounds right

Surely these are the parents of Alexander? (Snap!)

1891 England Census
Name: Grace Dewar
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Pimeom Dewar [Duncan, of course]
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Barrow in Furness
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Barrow
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 13 Island Road

Registration district: Barrow In Furness
Sub-registration district: Barrow in Furness
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3486
Folio: 100
Page Number: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
Pimeom Dewar 54 - Builder's Foreman
Grace Dewar 57
Jane Dewar 23



Referring to Maud as 3rd child, perhaps Elizabeth wasn't a Rile. Maybe she married a Rile. What do you think?

Ozi

Duncan could even be Alexander's father

Duncan DEWAR Head M Male 44 Scotland Joiner
Grace DEWAR Wife M Female 48 Scotland
Alexander DEWAR Son U Male 19 Scotland House Painter
David DEWAR Son U Male 17 Scotland Pupil Teacher
Jane DEWAR Daur Female 13 Scotland Scholar

Source Information:
Dwelling 11 Blake Street
Census Place Barrow In Furness, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1342024
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4288 / 114
Page Number 47

"duncan was a house painter they move to barrow-in-furness my grandmother maud was there third child out of 11 childern"

if Maud Louise was the 3rd child (born as a Ryles not Dewar) who were the 1st and 2nd children?

Probably too old to be your grandfather, but possibly a relative.
1841 England Census
Name: Joseph Ryle
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Mottram in Longden Dale
Hundred: Macclesfield
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Vale House

Occupation: Cotton weaver

Registration district: Ashton under Lyne <<<<<<<
Sub-registration district: Mottram

Piece: 100
Book: 16
Folio: 6
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Ryle 30

It looks as if he's lodging with a Cotton Engineer and his family.

1841 census doesn't give relationships but does show he's separate within the household. Also the age is rounded down to the nearest 5 years so he could be 30-34, and no place of birth. Just if they were born in the county or not.

There are pages of households living at the address Vale House. In the enumerator's description it says "... Vale House and including all those cottages at Lane End ..."

Yes I agree, lancsAnn.

We have been following the correct family. Duncan was a brother. There is no Duncan Dewar marriage in England or Wales on freebmd before 1913.

Anyway we have shown that Maud wasn't a Dewar, but born before that marriage.

I can't understand where Elizabeth born South Shields comes from. So far Joseph Riles/Ryles is remaining a mystery though there are signs of him.

Going back to MarieCeleste's 1881 post Elizabeth was born Stalybridge, Staffordshire. There is also a Stalybridge in Cheshire close to Ashton-under-Lyne.

Ozi

are you sure maud's father (?) was Duncan Dewar. Is this not a more likely marriage if Elizabeth was living in Barrow and Maud was registered in Barrow as Maud Louise Ryles not Dewar as she was born before the marriage

Cumbria Marriage indexes for the years: 1886
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
DEWAR Alexander RYLES Elizabeth Barrow-in-Furness Register Office or Registrar Attended Barrow C1/7/66

Do you have your grandmother Maud's birth certificate

Janet is this your Elizabeth in 1881 - jute worker living in Barrow but born in Staley Bridge

Mary A. RYLES Head M Female 46 Lady Moor, Stafford, England
Henry RYLES Son U Male 20 Bilston, Stafford, England Machine Driller (E & M)
Sarah A. RYLES Daur U Female 18 Barrow, Lancashire, England Jute Worker
Louisa TODD Daur M Female 23 Bilston, Stafford, England Housekeeper
Thomas RYLES Son Male 14 Warton, Lancashire, England Machine Driller (E & M)
Emma RYLES Daur Female 12 Barrow, Lancashire, England Scholar
Arthur RYLES Son Male 10 Barrow, Lancashire, England Scholar
Elizabeth RYLES Neice U Female 18 Staley Bridge, Stafford, England Jute Worker
John TODD Son In Law M Male 22 Hawcoat, Lancashire, England Stone Mason
James GILPIN Boarder U Male 26 Ireland Map Etc Salesman

Source Information:
Dwelling 59 Emlyn St
Census Place Barrow In Furness, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1342024
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4287 / 30
Page Number 53

Thanks for reminding me about Lancashire BMD, Ann.

RILES William CARTER (Mother's Maiden Name) 1870 Chorley Preston Lancashire CHO/43/27



1861 England Census
Name: Margaret Carter
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Ball
Mother's Name: Hannah Ball
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Beard, Ollerset, Whitle, and Thornset
Ecclesiastical parish: Beard
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street Address: Coal Pit Lane

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Hayfield
Sub-registration district: Hayfield

Piece: 2554
Folio: 67
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Ball 28
Hannah Ball 33
Eliza Jane Ball 4
Valentine Ball 3
Henrietta Ball 1
Susan Ball 60
John Glansay 40 - boarder
Henry Carter 43 - boarder; Labourer; born Manchester
Susan Carter 44 - wife of boarder; born Ireland
Margaret Carter 15 - daughter [I think this should mean daughter of boarder.]

pm from Janet

l do not know when joseph was born his daughter elizabeth was born in south shields about 1861 she married duncan dewar she was a jute worker and move to barrow-in-furness they had a 11 childern my grandmother maud dewar was married in 1907 to john alexander benzie l do not know much about joseph only that he was living in blackpool in 1907 at 42 blackpool road or street janet

Janet, the information you've given seems to conflict with what's been found, so let's try to straighten it out.

When you say you got Joseph's address from Maud's marriage certificate, how do you know he was living with her family at the time of her marriage? (The certificate, I believe, only gives the addresses of the bride and groom).

Where have you got the information from that Elizabeth was born in South Shields, do you know her birth year?

pm from Janet in answer to my query about where she got Joseph' address from:

"yes l got joseph address from my grandmothers marries certificate in 1907 mauds mother was elizabeth ryles she was born in south shields l think she was married in south shields to duncan dewar she elizabeth was a jute worker and duncan was a house painter they move to barrow-in-furness my grandmother maud was there third child out of 11 childern janet"

Have explained about replying on here so we can all see the info.