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Wirral archives helped again although there was no address for Charlotte Roberts on the affiliation order they explained that these type of claims were treated in small claims court and not considered worthy of transcripts .Also they would not be newsworthy enough for local paper ;

Wirral archives helped again although there was no address for Charlotte Roberts on the affiliation order they explained that these type of claims were treated in small claims court and not considered worthy of transcripts .Also they would not be newsworthy enough for local paper ;

yes i'd like to do that . Thought it might be breaking rules tho .

Alisoun, I know we normally say one thread per family but I do agree it's getting messy.

Why not keep this one as the "Charlotte" thread and the other as the Fellman?

If anything turned up that was relevant to both then they can be cross referenced.

MarieCeleste , yes it could mean that too . You're right about accents too ,children brought up multilingual find it easier to take up a new language as an adult . In Kurland people spoke Russian ,Yiddish and German .. I'm in a bit of a quandary about what to do about these 2 threads now as they are starting to be parallel . This one is getting long + hard to follow but I don't want to close it as I've not given up on finding ggma charlotte yet .

Alisoun, I was wondering if "belongs" Jersey may mean that he'd been living there, even if just for a short while?

I too would describe 35 as young but wondered if a journalist of the time would havelife expectancy being so much lower then. The article says "belongs to" Jersey ,which seems odd wording , I wonder if it could be the name of a company.( Have PMed you MarieCeleste).
Certainly Dundee seems to punish this offence rather harshly .

Hi Alisoun, well I did say I didn't know if there was any connection!

However, there is the following to consider:

I can't see any George or George Jacob Fellman on any census in the Channel Islands, there's nothing to say that part is true.

I personally would call a chap in his mid thirties a young man, but perhaps I'm old!

My Russian friend and her daughter came to England 10 years ago. The mother still has quite a heavy accent, her daughter who was in her teens when she arrived has no trace of a Russian accent at all. Neither does my adopted Russian niece (although she was only 10 when adopted and is 18 now).

The article doesn't imply that the chap was some sort of seedy merchant, it does imply that he was a commercial traveller as he was intending to sell the cards to stationers. The 1901 shows your George Jacob not just as a draper but also as a general dealer. Also, that possible 1911 has him as a traveller collector. Victorian erotica was quite fashionable and what may have been acceptable in parts of England may have offended someone else in Dundee.

I'll send you the actual article so you can decide for yourself.

I found the article when searching the British Newspaper Archives to see if there was any mention of the court order in the papers but this article was all that came up.

MarieCeleste we must have posted at the same time . Would a reporter have described a 36 year old as a "young" man ? and could he have lost his Germanic/Russian accent enough by then to pass off as being from Jersey ?
surely not my ggfather !
It seems unlikely he'd have taken to travelling the country after being a draper in Birkenhead for at least 2 years (Maisie was born Dec 1899 and he was still in Borough Road in 1901 Census).I don't think he was a total rogue as he must have admitted to fathering the child ....it seems it would have been easier for a man to deny paternity and save money ...(unless there was some other proof .)



How did you find the newspaper report ? I wonder if one was published about the court case when Charlotte Roberts sued our George Jacob Fellman for child support in january 1900 ?

Yes I thought about that too , for some reason the Fellman s I originally researched became Feldman when they took the boat to USA it seems odd that the spelling became more rather than less foreign . I looked up possible alternative spellings on a family name site .Maybe his mother's first name Mendel would also give a hint to their precise origins . i was surpised because i thought that was a man's name .A more Russian version of George could be Yuri . We assume they were Jewish because of the names and guessing they came to Cheetham.just before 1891 census as George wasn't working then .

Don't know if there's any connection but thought worth mentioning:

The Dundee Courier of 16 November 1906 carried a report of a "well dressed young man" named George Jacob Fellman who was tried and fined £3 for trying to sell pictorial postcards of an indecent nature.
He had come to Dundee from Derby three weeks earlier and it's said he originated from Jersey.

Alisoun, I know you were wondering if George Jacob Fellman had anglicised his name.

I was actually wondering if Fellman was already an anglicisation of a surname like Feldman?

thanks jax, marie-celeste and ann for your continued interest and help .I might have more chance of finding what became of my great grandfather George than my great grandmother Charlotte .Tho i'm not totally giving up giving up on her .

Thanks for nudging this jax!

Alisoun has a general query as she'd been wondering what happened to George Jacob Fellman.

possible 1911 census put on other thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1324681

:-)

JUSTICE ; records show George jacob Fellman paid £2 -2 -6 in March (7weeks after the order was made) it seems that £1-1-0 was allowed for medical attendant
I don't know if that would be a midwife or a doctor .
10s and 6d was for a solicitor and 11s was for costs
I am presuming he must also have paid the child maintenance at least at first . I.ve checked the police code of the time ,affiliation orders could be followed by arrest warrents if not paid regularly .

Thanks for letting us know.
:-) :-) :-)

Birkenhead Offices found a court order for the maintenance of Charlotte Roberts child ....a George Jacob Fellman was ordered to pay 4shillings a week until Maisie Fellman Roberts was 14 years of age ; so my mother finally has a name for her Grandfather and we know his mother was called Mendel .. There is also a medical payment and a mysterious payment ;sending off for the original document ..it's so exciting .

The archives didn't give me a time frame for when they could answer I'd hoped it would be same day ....have to wait til Monday now .
I will phone them again to see if they have any other records apart from court cases ,apparently Jewish BMD were recorded in synagogues +not always transferred to the same record offices as the local churches .