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timothy mcgreal

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Stacey

Stacey Report 12 Jun 2012 20:30

HI im trying to trace my grandfathers familytree but other than knowing my granfathers name timothy mcgreal we know very little about him!! what i do know is that timothy was was either born in september 1908 or march 1909!!! on his army demob papers it states he was born september 1908! but all the online information including military records state march 1909..Iv found records for timothy 1909 living at walton on the hill workhouse aged 2 which i know is right.i have also found records for timothy 1909 going to canada in 1925! he returned in 1928 to liverpool. i have a record for timothy 1909 getting married to an enid birch?? i know he had 3 children to the first wife all of whom are as yet unknown. timothy was a prisoner of war for 4 years at stalag 20b poland on his release in 1945 he was known to be in the little horton area of bradford. he is believed to have had 2 brothers and a sister we are unsure of the names. although it was mentioned that one of the brothers was a boxer!! iny information would be great :-)

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 12 Jun 2012 20:33

Stacey since you are just starting out, you want to start by having the thrill of discovery for yourself !

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Go there and search for

mcgreal
timothy

and you will find his birth to start with


Now, I see you probably know that -- registered in early 1909. It is possible he was born earlier in 1908 and registered late ... you have to get his birth certificate to know for sure.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Jun 2012 20:33

Hello Stacey and welcome to the boards.

One of your points - the children to his first wife - can easily be found using FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Just put in surname McGreal and mother's name Birch.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Jun 2012 20:35

You will need to order certificates along the way to confirm details.

The only place to order them online is GRO (everywhere else is a rip off). GRO charge £9.25 which is less than some register offices charge.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 12 Jun 2012 20:38

This is the only birth on Findmypast:-


Name: MCGREAL, Timothy
Registration district: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1909
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 520

This looks like his first marriage:-

Name: MCGREAL, Timothy
Registration district: Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1932
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Birch
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 216

Name: BIRCH, Edith
Registration district: Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1932
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Mcgreal
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 216

I can find no children's births from this marriage.

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 12 Jun 2012 20:40

Is this him in Prisoner of War records? :-

WWII Prisoners of War

Name: T. MCGREAL
Rank: Private
Regiment: The South Lancashire Regiment
Army No: 3650596
Camp No: 20B
Prisoner of War No: 10045

Record office: Infantry Record Office, The Public Hall, Lune Street, Preston, Lancashire

Camp type: STALAG
Camp location: Marienburg

Kath. x

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Jun 2012 20:41

His arrival in Canada (I know you may already have this)

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Timothy McGrael
Gender: Male
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1909
Birth Country: England
Date of Arrival: 28 Aug 1925
Vessel: Montnairn
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-14718

His trip was arranged by the Liverpool Guardians.

His next of kin in England is given as John McGreal, 7 Netherfield Place, Liverpool - perhaps his brother?
EDIT: Or is it his father? See 1911 posted below.

He and all of the other children on the ship were going to Mother Evangelist, 1155 Wellington Street, Ottawa, Ontario.

There are a number of items on Mother Evangelist O'Keeffe if you Google.

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 12 Jun 2012 20:48

Don't know if this might be a sister to Timothy but she is in the same workhouse in 1911:-

1911 census transcription details for: Workhouse West Derby Union, WEST DERBY UNION WORKHOUSE, RICE LANE

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN22406 RD455 SD4 ED50 SN9999
Reg. District: West Derby
Sub District: Walton
Parish: Walton on the Hill
Enum. District: 50

Address: Rise Lane Walton-On-The-Hill Liverpool
County: Lancashire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

MCGREAL, Rose F 6 1905 Lancs Liverpool

Kath. x

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Jun 2012 20:51

I think this may be that Rose's baptism:

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
Name: Rosa McGreol
Birth Date: 24 Jul 1904
Baptism Date: 24 Sep 1904
Parish: All Saints (Omnium)
Father's Name: Joannis Mcgreol (John)
Mother's name: Mariae Coughlan (Mary)

Godmother was Margarita (Margaret) Shaughnessy.

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 12 Jun 2012 20:51

Possible marriage for this Rose McGreal:-


Name: MCGREAL, Rose
Registration district: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1932
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Newton
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 1203

Name: NEWTON, Thomas W
Registration district: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1932
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Mcgreal
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 1203

Kath. x

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 12 Jun 2012 20:53

There is no death or remarriage for an Edith Mcgreal (the one death for that name is a younger Edith who married a different Mcgreal).

Timothy's own death record shows him to have had his Sept 1908 birthday before his death later in the year in 1961

Name: Timothy McGreal
Birth Date: abt 1908
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1961
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Bradford
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2b
Page: 120

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Jun 2012 20:57

There is a John and Mary McGreal on the 1911, is it possible they just couldn't cope with their children and some went in the workhouse, subsequently to Canada?

MCGREAL, John Head Married M 53 1858 Mariner Mayo Ireland Resident
MCGREAL, Mary Wife Married 11 years F 49 1862 Lanc Liverpool
MCGREAL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 18 1893 Lanc Liverpool
MCGREAL, Thomas Son M 12 1899 Lanc Liverpool
MCGREAL, James Son M 10 1901 Lanc Liverpool
MCGREAL, Mary Daughter F 8 1903 Lanc Liverpool
MCGREAL, Bridget Daughter F 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 Lanc Liverpool

RG number: RG14 Piece: 22506 Reference: RG14PN22506 RG78PN1324 RD455 SD7 ED23 SN149
Registration District: West Derby
Sub District: North Everton
Enumeration District: 23 Parish: Everton

Address: 117 Towson Street Everton Liverpool County: Lancashire

They'd been married 21 years, not 11. They'd had 12 children, 8 of which are still alive.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 12 Jun 2012 21:02

Marriage of John and Mary...(Parents of Rose)


1889. 363 ST MARY RC Church HIGHFIELD ST Liverpool
JOHN McGREAL
MARY CATHERINE COUGHLIN

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 12 Jun 2012 21:03

Here is Timothy's Home Child record

no other McGrael or McGreal shown in the database

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-100.01-e.php

Surname: McGRAEL
Given Name: Timothy
Age: 16
Sex: M
Ship: Montnairn
Year of Arrival: 1925
Departure Port: Liverpool
Departure Date: 1925-08-21
Arrival Port: Quebec
Arrival Date: 1925-08-28
Party: Catholic Emigration Association
Destination: Ottawa, Ontario
Comments: 51 children to Mother Evangelist, St. Georges Home, Ottawa.
Notes: vol. 11, p. 88
Source: Library and Archives Canada
Reference: RG 76 C1a
Microfilm: T-14718
Type of Record: Passenger Lists Group of Children Traveling Together

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 Jun 2012 22:30

This was Timothy returning in 1928:

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Timothy Mcgreal
Birth Date: abt 1909
Age: 19
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 30 Apr 1928
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Montclare
Shipping Line: Cunard Line
Official Number: 145923

Although it states he'd arrived from New York the original image says he'd embarked at New Brunswick (St John NB). He was a tailor's presser and his address in England was to be with Mrs M McGreal, 7 Netherfield Place, Liverpool.

Might be coincidence, but seems to tie in with John and Mary, as per the outgoing trip to Canada and the 1911 census for that couple.

Certificates definitely needed.

Stacey

Stacey Report 13 Jun 2012 00:20

just wanted to say a big thank you for the responces i do have most of the info you have given me so that tells me i must be on the right track!! wasnt aware he had so many siblings!! mariecelest did 4 pass away? evie thank you so much for the link i shall look forwards to reading about the lifes they lead!! its shocking to find the harshness of life back then and how they lived its what i wanted to find out how his life was and not just a name but yeah thank you everyone all the info matches mine its just a struggle with the parents so im going to definately get a birth certificate any more info would be greatly recieved many many thanks :-)

Stacey

Stacey Report 13 Jun 2012 00:23

Also forgot to mention his father was a cattle doctor on the ships iv tried looking for a john mcgreal cattle doctor but no joy as yet!!! :-)

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 13 Jun 2012 02:13

Hi Stacey, there are so many things on line about Home Children it could keep you busy for a long time :)

I googled this

"home children" "st george's home" ottawa

and found numerous things, like

http://www.bytown.net/homekids.htm

You can add Timothy's name to the list of Home Children in Ottawa at that site.

Timothy was one of the later arrivals (home children continued to go to Australia for many years after the practice stopped for Canada) and he was an older boy, and probably had some say in his fate and knew he was going to Canada to work in agriculture. He was one of quite a few who decided not to stay once they were old enough to return.

The hard truth is that had many of the children stayed in England (those who were really orphaned and destitute, not those whose parents were lied to or tricked), especially in the cities before 1900, they would have had at least equally hard lives, without the opportunities that some home children did manage to find despite the isolation from home and family.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 13 Jun 2012 08:32

Stacy I wonder if this may be relative to the "Boxing" connection you refererred to....

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12293:john-porky-mcgreal--a-tribute&catid=14&Itemid=100008

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 13 Jun 2012 08:33

??

1891 England Census
about Catharine McGreal Name: Catharine McGreal
Age: 10/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John McGreal
Mother's name: Mary C McGreal
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Everton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Polycarp
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: North Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2951
Folio: 70
Page Number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
John McGreal 24 Born Westport Ireland....Cattle Man on Ships
Mary C McGreal 21
Catharine McGreal 10/12