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Wow, ok ... so, it seems things were more difficult with John Swales and his wife Lavinia that I first imagined. When she was admitted to the aslym she was diagnosed with a pregnancy fever that had caused a mania. Now I wonder if John was the father of the baby, Clifton Swales, born in the asylum in 1861 (from memory, John was offically recorded as the father). And then Lavinia then had at least another three children after this. Wow, how complex.

If I pm you Mike am I able to be emailed scans of all the relevent documents you have for this family? I would really like to sort all of this out.

Sorry , never been able to find a marriage for Elizabeth Gordon to John Swales. Her first child in 1852 was registered as Elizabeth Gordon so the marriage if there was one must have been after that.

She then had 8 children from 1856 with the Swales surname Priscilla being one of them.

Dinah I suspect was born Morrison ( again can't find a marriage) but when mother Elizabeth then married William Ireland in 1876 she married as Morrison, with her father named as John Gordon.

No, we shall unravel it! I am confident and yes Glitterbaby is great. As are numerous other reserchers on here.

Good Luck with your search also!

Peter

Unravel it ..........lol

Peter I,m still trying to do the same with my crazy family

But it does give us something to do on a chill saturday ..

I will take a look here BUT I must say if Glitterbaby is on this case and she cant unravel it theres no way on earth I could do it

Glitterbaby is one of "our" best hunters

But Good Luck Peter and enjoy

Hey Kempina,

Yes I am related to the Swales. The Bowman - Mary was a Swales before she married and a sister of the John Swales mentioned here.

It is all quite confusing! If you can help unravel it, I would be most grateful.

Can I ask

Is this Swales /swale family yours ?

As yesterday we looked for BOWMAN for you and this showed in 1871 that they lived with a family called Swales BUT on that census it said the Swale family are lodgers ...It didnt indicate that the swales were related to the Bowmans?

Thanks Mike ... this is confusing but starting to make more sense now!

So, is John Swales the father of Priscilla and Dinah?! Or don't you know?! And do Dinah Swales senior and Flora Swales connect? Are they related?

So how long were John Swales and Elizabeth Gordon an item for? And is he the father of Priscilla and Dinah.

Lavinia Stephenson is definitiely the mother of Zacheriah as I have seen the baptism.

Is this of any help - on the original they state they have been married for thirty years, have had l3 children, 8 still living., and they were not actually married when the children were born, although the mother's maiden name was given on the children's birth cert. -

1911 census - household transcription
Person: MORAN, Priscilla
Address: 100 Walker St Preston


MORAN, Martin Head Married M 56 1855 Brewer Licensed Victualler Lancashire Preston VIEW
MORAN, Priscilla Wife Married
30 years F 46 1865 Lancashire Preston VIEW
MORAN, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 18 1893 Weaver Cotton Lancashire Preston VIEW
MORAN, M Alice Daughter Single F 13 1898 School Lancashire Preston VIEW
MORAN, Lillean Daughter Single F 10 1901 Lancashire Preston VIEW
BRANDE, Elizabeth Grandchild Small F 6 1905 Lan Preston VIEW
MCCURTNEY, Annie Daughter Married F 26 1885 Card Room Rover Cotton Lan Preston VIEW
MCCURTNEY, Priscilla Granddaughter F 4 1907 Lan Preston VIEW
MCCURTNEY, John Grandson M 1 1910 Lan Preston VIEW

Oh more confusion. Now, I have seen these names mentioned before but not directly linked to my family like this (although this board is for a cousin of my ancestor). So, it is good to make a connection.

I'll wait to see the birthplaces in 1861 first, if that is ok. This is complicated enough without making it more so!

From my notes ....( taken from newpapers archives )


PRESTON GUARDIAN
28TH May 1880

THEFT FROM DWELLING HOUSE –

Priscilla Swales and Martin Moran were charged with stealing and receiving 13s 6d belonging to Margaret Borey of 15 Snow Hill on 16th inst. Mr. Blackhurst prosecuted.

On the day in question, prosecutrix placed the money on the mantel piece in the kitchen and shortly afterwards left the house.
During her absence a little girl saw Swales enter the dwelling, take the money from the mantel then join the other prisoner in the street.
When apprehended Swales said Moran had a share of the money.
They were both committed to the sessions for trial.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRESTON GUARDIAN
19TH MARCH 1881

DISGRACEFUL ASSAULT –

Martin Moran was charged by William Ireland who appeared in court with his head covered in bandages with assaulting him on Saturday night. The complainant said that about half past ten on Saturday night he was coming along Friargate from the Market place and when he got near Green Street, the prisoner Moran and another man rushed out and Moran got hold of him, knocked him down and kicked him several times on the head, while the other prisoner kicked him severely about the body.
Moran put one of his (complainant’s) fingers into his mouth and nearly bit the end off. He did not know what was the cause of the assault, except it was that he had had a summons issued against the prisoner on 23rd January.
Patrick Swales who was with the complainant at the time the assault was committed, corroborated the facts and the prisoner was committed to prison for a month with hard labour.

That 1861census is part of my family tree.
Mother Elizabeth ( nee Gordon) is daughter of Dinah nee Swales.( the one you said in a PM you weren't related to)

Priscilla Swales and husband Martin Moran both ended up in prision in 1880's
Elizabeth went on to marry William Ireland ( son of Flora nee Swales )
Talk about keeping it in the family !

Now a court case in 1880 - what for?

I have never seen the two younger sisters. I wonder who their mother is? Evidently, Priscilla is Elizabeth's (wife 2) child, especially as Lavinia (wife 1) had Clifton Swales (Mar 1861-Dec 1861) in the Clifton Asylum at York.

Ok the 1861 you just posted - I have NEVER seen this before. Can I ask for the families birthplaces (although this OTHER Zachariah's parents were John, 1833-1877 and LAVINIA (b 1834)

Now, although they had a daughter named Elizabeth Swales, born 1852 in Stokesley, the mother LAVINIA was in the Clifton Asylum in York.

She was there and said her husband was abusive. Is Elizabeth senior, 'the other woman'?

From a baptism in Darlingon dated 16 May 1884. It says only Sarah Swales but of course, the Ann was her mother's middle name and could of been added.

Thank you Glitterbaby.

Peter

:-S

Name: Zachariah Swales
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1867
Age at Death: 11
Registration district: Preston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 337


?
1861
Name: Zacchariah Swale
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Swale
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Swale
Gender: Male
Where born: Stokesley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Preston
Ecclesiastical parish: Church
Town: Preston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Preston
Sub-registration district: Preston
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 3128
Folio: 160
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
John Swale 39 - Stokesley
Elizabeth Swale 30
Elizabeth Swale 9 - Yorkshire
Zacchariah Swale 4
Dinah Swale 3
Priscilla Swale 2 Months

Class: RG 9; Piece: 3128; Folio: 160; Page: 12; GSU roll: 543083.


Name: Priscilla Swales
Date of Trial: 30 Jun 1880
Trial Year: 1880
Location of Trial: Lancashire, England
Sentence: Imprisonment - 6 months

Larceny before convicted of felony
Term of Police supervision 3 years

What evidence do you have of a daughter Sarah b 1884 ?

??

Deaths Jun 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SWALES Sarah Ann 1 Guisborough 9d 345

Hi Glitterbaby, wow, a few points raised. Thank you for your time and help.

You have tied up both FrancEs and Zachariah, who seem to have died as babies (I need to now email for their death certificates).

This is another sad story - it seems that the parents seperated after the 1890s. Sarah was sent to prison for petty crime, and later died in 1896. It was suspected a kick from her common-law husband had caused the death, but it was dismissed.

It seems the couple only had two surviving daughters - Margaret from 1875 and Sarah from 1884 (but although I can't find a death, Sarah is not shown in the 1891).

RE The 1899 death at Guisborough for Zachariah Swales - correct age and location BUT there was another cousin with the same name who was baptised on 17 Aug. 1856 in Stokesley, Yorkshire. This seems to be him through probability. Can you spot this cousin on the 1891? This should confirm. I don't know if he married or had a family, so it would be nice to find that out also.

Thank you again. This is very helpful.

Peter

Name: Zachariah Swales
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1882
Age at Death: 2
Registration district: Darlington
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 11




Have you ruled out this one although year of birth is a abit out

Name: Zachariah Swales
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1899
Age at Death: 44
Registration district: Guisborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 319

Do you know that Zac born 1880 survived to 1891 ?