Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 14:06 |
I'm pretty sure Frances Chantler is Frances Clout, Eliza's sister and Mary Annie's maternal aunt.
The forename, age and birthplace of both women is the same.
What I can't work out is what happened to Frances/Fanny between census 1851 when she was a single servant, and 1871 when she was with John Chantler, other than the likely marriage to Henry Walter Wise.
I can't find Frances under any identity in census 1861.
|
|
Pappa
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 10:55 |
Dear Kucinta, I have had a go to try and work this one out but its a bit of a headbanger,
Thankyou so much for all your time spent,
Best wishes mfm
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 06:04 |
A possible marriage for Frances - maybe why she couldn't/didn't marry John?
groom's name: Henry Walter Wise groom's birth date: groom's birthplace: groom's age: bride's name: Frances Clout bride's birth date: bride's birthplace: bride's age: marriage date: 21 Oct 1855 marriage place: Ticehurst,Sussex,England groom's father's name: groom's mother's name: bride's father's name: bride's mother's name: groom's race: groom's marital status: groom's previous wife's name: bride's race: bride's marital status: bride's previous husband's name: indexing project (batch) number: M01384-2 system origin: England-ODM source film number: 892355
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 05:12 |
Census 1851 shows Frances/Fanny as being born Ticehurst:
Name: Fanny Clout Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834 Relation: Servant Gender: F (Female) Where born: Ticehurst, Sussex, England<<<<<<<< Civil parish: Wadhurst Town: Wadhurst County/Island: Sussex Country: England
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 05:02 |
Census 1871 confirms Mary Annie Wright, (later Cottingham), was indeed Alfred Clifton's stepdaughter.
Address: Wood's Green, Wadhurst County: Sussex
CLIFTON, Alfred Head M 39 1832 Sussex CLIFTON, Eliza Wife F 31 1840 Sussex WRIGHT, Charles Step-Son M 9 1862 Sussex WRIGHT, Henry W Step-Son M 8 1863 Sussex WRIGHT, Frank Step-Son M 6 1865 Sussex >>WRIGHT, Mary A Step-Daughter F 4 1867 Sussex CLIFTON, Alfred J Son M 0 1871 Sussex BALDWIN, William Boarder M 19 1852 Sussex
So I strongly suspect that Frances Clout, aunt to Mary Annie Cottingham nee Wright by being sister to Mary Annie's mother Eliza Clifton, formerly Wright, nee Clout, somehow ended up with John 'Harry' Chantler.
I can't find a marriage to confirm this, but perhaps one or both of them had an impediment in the form of a prior/existing marriage?
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 04:58 |
First marriage for Eliza Clout?
Marriages Jun 1859 Clarke Horace Tunbridge 2a 576 >>>Clout Eliza Tunbridge 2a 576 Weeks Eleanor Tunbridge 2a 576 >>>Wright Robert Tunbridge 2a 576
Second marriage for Eliza?
Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%) >>Clifton Alfred Ticehurst 2b 176 DIBLEY Caroline Killick Ticehurst 2b 176 Wickens Stephen Ticehurst 2b 176 >>WRIGHT Eliza Ticehurst 2b 176
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: Alfred Clifton groom's birth date: groom's birthplace: groom's age: bride's name: Eliza Wright bride's birth date: bride's birthplace: bride's age: marriage date: 31 Oct 1869 marriage place: Wadhurst, Sussex, England groom's father's name: groom's mother's name: bride's father's name: bride's mother's name: groom's race: groom's marital status: groom's previous wife's name: bride's race: bride's marital status: bride's previous husband's name: indexing project (batch) number: I02335-3 system origin: England-EASy source film number: 1894334 reference number: 33
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 04:52 |
It might be co-incidence, but I think Eliza Clifton, mother of Mary Annie Coddington nee Wright, was nee Clout, and she had a sister called Frances Clout born c1834 and both Clout girls were living in Ticehurst in 1841:
What I can't find is the union of a Frances Clout to John Chantler.
Census 1841:
Name: Frances Clout Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834 Gender: Female Where born: Sussex, England Civil parish: Ticehurst Hundred: Shoyswell County/Island: Sussex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
View image Registration district: Ticehurst Sub-registration district: Ticehurst Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1109 Book: 8 Page Number: 1
Name Age Charles Clout 35 Mary Clout 35 Henry Clout 12 Frances Clout 7<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Benjamin Clout 6 Eliza Clout 2<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mary Bishop 65
Parents' Marriage?:
groom's name: Charles Clout groom's birth date: groom's birthplace: groom's age: bride's name: Mary Ann Bishop bride's birth date: bride's birthplace: bride's age: marriage date: 27 Jul 1822 marriage place: Ticehurst, Sussex, England groom's father's name: groom's mother's name: bride's father's name: bride's mother's name: groom's race: groom's marital status: groom's previous wife's name: bride's race: bride's marital status: bride's previous husband's name: indexing project (batch) number: I05735-0 system origin: England-EASy source film number: 1894294 reference number: page 45, #133
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 04:09 |
Re the 1863 Sevenoaks marriage Barbara posted earlier, looks like Frances Ann Kingswood married the other guy...
Marriages Sep 1863 Chantler John Sevenoaks 2a 659 KINGSWOOD Frances Ann Sevenoaks 2a 659 RUSSELL Sarah Ann Sevenoaks 2a 659 TOTMAN George Goulding Sevenoaks 2a 659
Census 1871:
Name: Frances Totman Age: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: George Totman Gender: Female Where born: Penshurst, Kent, England Civil parish: Penshurst County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Sevenoaks Sub-registration district: Penshurst ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Household schedule number: 17 Piece: 925 Folio: 46 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age George Totman 33 Frances Totman 31 wife <<<<<<< Ann Kingswood 63 mother in law <<<<<<<
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 03:56 |
Marriages:
??? matches the 28 yrs wed in 1911 census
Marriages Jun 1882
>>Cottingham George Ticehurst 2b 181 FOSTER George Ticehurst 2b 181 Wallis Priscilla Ticehurst 2b 181 >>Wright Annie Ticehurst 2b 181
Was Eliza Clifton [Mary] Annie's mother?
Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%) >>Clifton Alfred Ticehurst 2b 176 DIBLEY Caroline Killick Ticehurst 2b 176 Wickens Stephen Ticehurst 2b 176 >>WRIGHT Eliza Ticehurst 2b 176
Co-incidently Alfred and Eliza had a daughter called Frances, but I still can't connect [Mary] Annie with Frances Chandler/Chantler.
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 03:16 |
Mistranscribed in 1891:
Address: Penny Bridge, Mark Cross Road, Wadhurst County: Sussex
COLLINGHAM, George Head Married M 31 1860 Agricultural Laborer Frant, Sussex COLLINGHAM, Mary A Wife Married F 24 1867 Wadhurst, Sussex COLLINGHAM, Rose A Daughter Single F 6 1885 Scholar Wadhurst, Sussex COLLINGHAM, Peter Son Single M 3 1888 Frant, Sussex COLLINGHAM, Emily M Daughter Single F 2 1889 Wadhurst, Sussex COLLINGHAM, William D Son Single M 0 (7M) 1891 Mayfield, Sussex
Walter Cottingham from census 1901 is with grandparents:
Address: 19, Woods Green, Wadhurst County: Sussex
CLIFTON, Alfred Head Married M 59 1832 Agricultural Labourer Wadhurst, Sussex CLIFTON, Eliza Wife Married F 51 1840 Wadhurst, Sussex CLIFTON, John Son M 17 1874 Imbecile From A Child Caused By A Fall Wadhurst, Sussex CLIFTON, Frances Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar Wadhurst, Sussex COTTINGHAM, Walter Grandson M 7 1884 Scholar Wadhurst, Sussex<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2012 02:55 |
Census 1911:
Address: 46 Greenfield Road Folkestone County: Kent
Married 28 yrs, 9 children, all living.
COTTINGHAM, George Head Married M 51 1860 Carter Sussex Frant COTTINGHAM, Mary Annie Wife Married 28 years F 44 1867 Sussex Wadhurst COTTINGHAM, Sidney George Son Single M 17 1894 Baker - Vanman Sussex Lamberhurst COTTINGHAM, George Arthur Son M 14 1897 Kent Dover COTTINGHAM, Annie Daughter F 12 1899 School Kent Folkestone COTTINGHAM, Allis Victoria Daughter F 8 1903 School Kent Folkestone RYE, George Boarder Single M 18 1893 Errand And Coy - Bookshop London Wandsworth
Census 1901:
Address: 52, Sidney Street, Folkestone County: Kent
COTTINGHAM, George Head Married M 41 1860 Carter Town Frant, Sussex COTTINGHAM, Mary Wife Married F 36 1865 Wadhurst, Sussex COTTINGHAM, Walter Son Single M 17 1884 Blacksmith Wadhurst, Sussex COTTINGHAM, Rose A Daughter Single F 16 1885 Wadhurst, Sussex COTTINGHAM, Peter Son M 14 1887 Grocer's Shop Frant, Sussex COTTINGHAM, William D Son M 10 1891 Mayfield, Sussex COTTINGHAM, Sidney G Son M 8 1893 Lamberhurst, Sussex COTTINGHAM, George A Son M 5 1896 Dover, Kent COTTINGHAM, Annie Daughter F 2 1899 Folkestone, Kent
|
|
Barbara
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:35 |
1871 1871 England Census 1871 England Census Name: Frances Chantler Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: John Chantler Gender: Female Where born: Ticehurst, Sussex, England Civil parish: Tonbridge Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity Town: Tunbridge Wells County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Tunbridge Sub-registration district: Tunbridge Wells ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Household schedule number: 175 Piece: 930 Folio: 19 Page Number: 32 Household Members: Name Age John Chantler 33 Frances Chantler 34
|
|
Pappa
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:26 |
many thanks choccy, yes i also found that one, i want to find the connection between Marry Annie Cottingham and Frances.
Frances was meant to be an aunt,
Thankyou again.
mfm
|
|
Choccy
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:22 |
not finding anything 'definite' - have to go out now, but will look in again when I get back
|
|
Barbara
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:20 |
Working backwards this could be a possible Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chantler John Sevenoaks 2a 659 KINGSWOOD Frances Ann Sevenoaks 2a 659
|
|
Pappa
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:06 |
The newspaper says frances was married to a Harry but that could be his nickname etc, so now i am looking for a john chandler marriage.
Thankyou so much for the help,
mfm
|
|
Pappa
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:03 |
Dear Choccy, thanks again for that now i want to find her marriage to a possible Harry Chandler.
Any ideas?
mfm
|
|
Choccy
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 10:01 |
working backwards -
1901
RG number: RG13 Piece: 845 Folio: 27 Page: 11 Reg. District: Dover Sub District: Hougham Parish: Hougham Without Enum. District: 2 Ecclesiastical District: St Lawrance City/Municipal Borough: Address: Church Hougham, Hougham Without, Kent County: Kent
ASHMAN, John Head Widower M 58 1843 Agricultural Labour Smeeth, Kent CHANDLER, Fanny House Keeper Widow F 66 1835 House Keeper Tickhurst, Kent
1891
RG number: RG12 Piece: 745 Folio: 51 Page: 22 Reg. District: Dover Sub District: Hougham Parish: Buckland Enum. District: 3 Ecclesiastical District: St Andrews City/Municipal Borough: Dover Address: 2, Oswald Road, Buckland, Dover County: Kent
CHANTLER, John Head Married M 55 1836 General Labourer Tunbridge Wells, Kent CHANTLER, Frances Wife Married F 55 1836 Ticehurst, Sussex
|
|
Choccy
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 09:59 |
1911
RG14PN4621 RG78PN194 RD65 SD3 ED3 SN53 Reg. District: Dover Sub District: Hougham Parish: Hougham Without Enum. District: 3 Address: Church Hougham Near Dover County: Kent
CHANTLER, Frances Head Widow F 78 1833 Old Age Pensioner - Late Monthly Nurse Sussex Ticehurst
|
|
Pappa
|
Report
|
30 Nov 2012 09:47 |
Hello again,
Is there a Frances Chandler showing on the 1911 census in Dover,from her obituary it says she lived in Hougham and that her husband Harry Chandler died 17 years ago.
I am trying to find the maiden name of Frances Chandler,
Any help appreciated.
mfm
|