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Just found a death for that Oliver Offer:

British Columbia, Death Registrations, 1872-1986
name Oliver Offer
event Death
event date 21 Oct 1918
event place Anyox, British Columbia, Canada
gender Male
age 31
marital status Single
birthplace, England
british columbia archives film number B13113
digital folder number 004437642
registration number 68757

Thanks John - that sounds promising - might explain why I can't find him on the 1911 census then. I will have a look in to that.

An Oliver OFFER, a farm labourer, features on FMP, on the emigration pages.

Date of departure: *27 June 1907* (My emphasis)
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Montreal, Canada
Passenger destination: Montreal, Canada

Date of Birth: 1887 (calculated from age)
Age: 20
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Farm Lab
Ship: Ottawa

Might this be him?

Sorry - a quick amendment - Just checked the baptism records for Oliver Houlton again and the parents were Henry and Elizabeth not Henry and Sarah.

What I know to be facts are Oliver Houlton/Offer appears on 1891 and 1901 census returns as shown above with Elizabeth Offer and George Cox. On both census, it gives a birth year of circa 1888 and of Etchilhampton. There is a corresponding baptism in Etchilhampton for 8 Sep 1889 for Oliver John Henry Houlton born to Sarah and Henry Houlton of Enford, Wokingham, Berkshire. Father listed as Carpenter & Joiner - no birth date mentioned or any other information.

As for Elizabeth and George, they never married but cohabited for quite a number of years. They had the following children, all registered as Offer:
- Sarah Elizabeth Offer b1864 Etchilhampton married John James Harris 26 Jul 1884 Etchilhampton marriage registered under surname of Cox - father listed as George Cox. Spinster when married
- Annie Offer b1866 Etchilhampton married James J T Bolland 30 Sep 1891 father listed as George Cox. Spinster when married
- Walter James Offer b1869 Etchilhampton
- John Offer b1869 Etchilhampton d1902
- Alice Martha Offer b1874 Etchilhampton - haven't found after 1891 - may have married but no info

George Cox wasn't married before he was "with" Elizabeth from what I can see. George was born in Etchilhampton to John Cox and Martha Unknown. Elizabeth Offer was born in Etchilhampton to Richard Offer and Sarah Hall.

So far I have not come acrosss the surname Houlton within the family.

The information I have given you in the original post and this one is all accurate based on the records at the record office in Wiltshire. I have baptism records from the record office for all of George and Elizabeth's children - (although they only state Elizabeth on them) - As far as I'm aware I have all their children listed as above - unless they had one which wasn't baptised! The baptism record for Oliver is also from the record office plus the marriage information for George and Elizabeth's children that I've provided.

Yes, my apologies MarieCeleste.

.. but Sarah was married to John James Harris in 1884 ......

Thanks Tracey, you could be right there. I had just checked for John H Offer births on FreeBMD. Hadn't looked on the census.

I think I still quite like the look of that Oliver John R Offer birth in Islington. (Sarah was living in London at the time of the 1881 census) Will have a look at the original image as the "R" might be a mistranscribed "H"?



EDIT

Senior Moment (Again) !!!!

MarieCeleste found the marriage for Sarah (who was in London in 1881) to Harris. Here they are in 1891 (with a child the same age as Oliver)

Name: Sarah Harris
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John J Harris
Gender: Female
Where born: Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: St James
Ecclesiastical parish: Southbroom
Town: Devizes
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1599
Folio: 81
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
John J Harris 27
Sarah Harris 26
Ida N Harris 3
Ethel M Harris 2
Ada Frances Cox 14
Harry Weston 21

Root,

I think this is the man you have the death for...?

Name: John Offer
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wedhampton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Urchfont
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street Address: Wedhampton, Devizes, Wilts
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Cowman On Farm
Registration district: Devizes
Registration District Number: 246
Sub-registration district: Lavington
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 11946

James Offer 60
Hannah Offer 55
John Offer 24
Harry Offer 21
May Offer 14


Tracey

:-D

To be honest, there's no saying he was actually born with either of the names he's had attached to him on the census!!!

I wonder if he dropped the Oliver from his name? I don't see a birth to match this death.


???

Deaths Mar 1959 OFFER John H 71 Devizes 7c 521

it's still possible he is the result of a previous marriage for a child of Elizabeth & George?

He could well have been 'placed' at his Grandparents when his mother remarried?

He could have just inherited the surname of Offer in a further census, depending on who gave the details at the time?

We really do need to strip down the Grandparents tree's and establish some firm details.

Sarah, a lot of the details you have given us do not appear to be accurate? Can you please tell us where you have got most of your data from?


Tracey

:-D

Sarah - does the baptism give an actual birth date for Oliver? Is there any other relevant info on the baptism?

Also, I'm struggling to find that 1886 marriage for Sarah Elizabeth Offer and John James Harris.

EDIT: Is this it?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1884
BEAKE Harriet Devizes 5a 155
COX Sarah Devizes 5a 155 <<
Harris John James Devizes 5a 155 <<
Maskell John Devizes 5a 155

That knocks on the head any theory about her being Oliver's mum!

He is still single right through to 1911 MC, but, that said, it soesn't look as if he and Sarah were ever together, expecially if she married a couple of years after the son was born?

Perhaps it was just a 'fling' and they both went their seperate ways, leaving the child with grandparents?

Dea x

The Henry in Dea's 1881 is still at home and single in 1891:

HOULTON, Harriett Head Widow F 59 1832 Cirencester, Gloucestershire
HOULTON, Harry Son Single M 29 1862 Joiner Journeyman Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, David Son Single M 27 1864 Operative In Paper Mill Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Edwin Son Single M 23 1868 Bricklayer Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Edith Daughter Single F 19 1872 Imbecile From Childhood Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Charles Son M 13 1878 Page Wokingham, Berkshire

Piece: 999 Folio: 65 Page: 4
Registration District: Wokingham
Civil Parish: Wokingham
Municipal Borough: Wokingham

Address: Cottage, Wokingham County: Berkshire

1881

Name: Sarah Offer
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Gloucester Sq
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Kitchen Maid

Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: St John Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 18
Folio: 16
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Annie S. Gostling 70
Elizabeth Gostling 43
Fanny Gostling 40
Georgina Gostling 38
Florence Gostling 36
Theodosia Gostling 35
William Gostling 32
Caroline Leather 26
Mary Gubb 39
Anne E. Bates 26
Elizabeth A. Lovell 20
Sarah Offer 16
William Connell 26



Not seeing his birth registered as Houlton.

???

Births Jun 1887 Offer Oliver John R Islington 1b 22

I'd thought this is the correct 1881 for the Henry and Sarah in the opening post but the occupation is wrong :

HOULTON, Henry Head Married M 38 1843 Ag Lab Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Sarah Wife Married F 36 1845 Arborfield, Berkshire
HOULTON, Emily Daughter Single F 14 1867 Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Eugene Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, George Son Single M 3 1878 Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Elizabeth M Daughter Single F 3 1878 Wokingham, Berkshire

Piece: 1310 Folio: 31 Page: 18
Registration District: Wokingham
Civil Parish: Wokingham

Address: Peach St, Wokingham County: Berkshire

MarieCeleste - That tree on Ancestry is mine and it is information that I had a while back but I do not think it is correct - it is the only Henry Houlton and Sarah marriage I could find - it seems unlikely though - they'd have been married 30 years before having Oliver. I've searched for a Houlton/Cox marriage too in case it was a daughter of George Cox but nothing has come up. I think the Cnesus Dea found for Henry Houlton looks a possibility.

Sarah,

Have you stripped down all of Elizabeth & George's tree?

....are you missing any children for them?

Where do the Houlton's fit into either tree?


Tracey

:-D

1871

Name: Elizabeth Offer
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Etchilhampton
Town: Etchilhampton
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Bishops Cannings
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1908
Folio: 52
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Offer 31 Unmarried, Laundress
Sarah Offer 6 Daughter
Annie Offer 5 Daughter
Walter Offer 1 Son
Jane Offer 16 Sister, Unmarried