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I am trying to find information regarding an Edward Albert Samuel who died in WW2. he was in the RAF Volunteer Service and was in 37 Squadron. He is listed on a memorial in the Alamein Memoiral Cemetery, but I am unable to find any birth record of him.

Can anyone help, please? He may also have been known as Albert Edward Samuel.

Also, I am keen to find the names of his father's parents. His father was also called Edward Albert Samuel and he was born in 1905 and registered in the St Olave's district.

Many thanks

Are you sure his father was the one born 1905? I ask this because even supposing this Edward married when only 20 years old, then any children would have been very young during WW2. Do you know how old Edward was when he died? How did you come by him at all?

Just checking!

Births Jun 1905 (>99%)
Samuel Edward Albert St. Olave 1d 259

Jan

??

1911 census transcription details for: 14 Oldfield Road Rotherhithe
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National Archive Reference:

RG14PN1929 RG78PN68 RD24 SD3 ED16 SN25
Reg. District: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Sub District: Rotherhithe
Parish: Bermondsey
Enum. District: 16
Address: 14 Oldfield Road Rotherhithe
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
NORMAN, Thomas Head Married
30 years M 57 1854 Dock Labourer Unemployed London Rotherhithe
NORMAN, Mary Ann Wife Married
30 years F 60 1851 London Romford Essex
QUINLAN, Ellen A Daughter Married
1 years F 26 1885 London Deptford
>>SAMUEL, Edward Albert Grandson M 6 1905 London Rotherhithe


Ellen's marriage.


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Ellen Agnes Norman
Name: Ellen Agnes Norman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Age: 25
Spouse Name: Austin Quinlan
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Jan 1910
Parish: Rotherhithe All Saints
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Thomas Norman
Spouse Father Name: Martin Quinlan
Register Type: Parish Register

SAMUEL, EDWARD ALBERT
Rank:Sergeant
Service No:1383065
Date of Death:20/05/1942
Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
37 Sqdn.
Panel Reference Column 262.
Memorial ALAMEIN MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of Edward Albert and Hilda Samuel, of Ponder's End, Middlesex.

????

Marriages Jun 1922
BRADLEY John W Cumpston Pancras 1b 233
CUMPSTON Edith M Bradley Pancras. 1b 233
SAMUEL Edward A Woods Pancras 1b 233
WOODS Hilda M Samuel Pancras 1b 233

Births Mar 1924 Samuel Albert _ Woods St.Olave 1d 356


Births Mar 1926 Samuel Joan Woods St. Olave 1d 253

Births Jun 1929 Samuel Stanley G Woods St.Olave 1d 222

Here he is on Ancestry - no wonder I couldn't find him!

1911 England Census

Name: Edward Albert Samuel Quinlan
Age in 1911: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Grandchild
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Rotherhithe
Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 14 Oldfield Road, Rotherhithe
Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Registration District Number: 24
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe

Thomas Norman 57
Mary Ann Norman 60
Ellen A Quinlan 26
Edward Albert Samuel Quinlan 6

It was the Edward who died in WW2 that was born in 1905. On the CWGC site it gives his age at death as 37 - he died in 1942.

Yvonne

1891 for above family so probably the wrong one. I assume Joe and Florence would be young Edward's parents.


1891 census transcription details for: 260, Lower Road, St Paul Deptford
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 498
Folio: 45
Page: 6
Reg. District: Greenwich
Sub District: St Paul Deptford
Parish: St Paul Deptford
Enum. District: 21
Ecclesiastical District: St Lukes
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 260, Lower Road, St Paul Deptford
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
NORMAN, Thomas Head Married M 39 1852 General Labourer
Rotherhithe
NORMAN, Mary Anne Wife Married F 40 1851 Ironer
Romford, Essex
>>SAMUEL, Florence Daughter Single F 19 1872 Ironer
Romford, Essex
>>SAMUEL, Joe W Son Single M 17 1874 Leather Finisher
Romford, Essex
NORMAN, George Son Single M 10 1881
Deptford
NORMAN, Ellen A Daughter Single F 6 1885
Deptford
SAMUEL, Charlotte E Daughter Single F 13 1878
Deptford


EDIT Ignore what I said above . Florence, Joe and Charlotte appear to be from a different marriage. Was Mary Ann married to a Mr Samuel previously?

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the CWGC website doesn't give his age?

Here they are.


1881 census transcription details for: 9, Reculver Rd, St Paul Deptford
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 707
Folio: 106
Page: 31
Reg. District: Greenwich
Sub District: St Paul Deptford
Parish: St Paul Deptford
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 9, Reculver Rd, St Paul Deptford
County: London, Kent
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SAMUELL, Thomas Head Married M 56 1825 Labourer
Bromley, Middlesex
SAMUELL, Maryann Wife Married F 30 1851
Bramford, Essex
SAMUELL, Thomas Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar
Dagenham, Essex
SAMUELL, Florence Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Bromford, Essex
SAMUELL, Maryann Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar
Dagenham, Essex
SAMUELL, Joseph Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Deptford, Kent
SAMUELL, Charlotte Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar
Deptford, Kent
PROMEL, Thomas Lodger Single M 30 1851 Leather Finisher (Currier)
Southwark, Surrey
HAZLE, Robert Boarder Single M 22 1859 Labourer
Lambeth, Surrey
HARVEY, Thomas Lodger Single M 20 1861 Leather Finisher (Currier)
Southwark, Surrey
CLARKE, Maryann Lodger Single F 20 1861 Servant
Surrey Rotherhithe


1871 census transcription details for: London Road (Mill Stone), Romford
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 1645
Folio: 19
Page: 32
Reg. District: Romford
Sub District: Romford
Parish: Romford
Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: London Road (Mill Stone), Romford
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
SAMALL, Thomas Head lab M 40 1831 Bramley, Middlesex
SAMALL, Mary Ann Wife F 22 1849 Romford, Essex
SAMALL, Thomas Son M 2 1869 Romford, Essex

According to the 1911 Mary Ann and Thomas Norman had been married 30 years.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Thomas Norman
Name: Thomas Norman
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Age: 35
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Samuel, widow of 9 Portland St
Spouse Age: 38
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Aug 1891
Parish: Walworth All Saints
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Thomas William Stafford Norman, lighterman
Spouse Father Name: Joseph Barnett, labourer (Barnett is very faint so could very well be Bennett)
Register Type: Parish Register


Robert and Mary Ann Hazle were witnesses.

??

>>View Record Mary Ann Bennett Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex
View Record William Gale Cottrall Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex
>>View Record Thomas Hampsher Samuell Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex
View Record Mary Ann Sivell Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex

Phew! Thanks everyone, that;s really helpful but mind-boggling!

BrummieJan and Yvonne: we're sure that its definitely 2 people here. The one born in 1905 wasn't the one killed in 1942, as he joined the service at a very young age (blagging his age to his peers!) and was not very old when he died. He must have been born in the early-mid 20's.

Alviegal: Don't know for sure if you;re wrong re Florence, Joe & Charlotte, as we believe that we have a Joe & Charlotte. There was also an Esther Samuel (still living) which we can't find any birth trace of. Not sure about the content of your last posting - whether there's any connection.

Thanks to the others who have researched for me. All contributions very greatly received!!

I think Thomas Hampsher (Hampshire?) Samuel married Mary Ann Bennett. They had children Thomas, Florence, Joseph and Charlotte.

When he died, Mary Ann married Thomas Norman and had George and Ellen A.

Edward Albert, 1905, is their grandson but not sure about his parents.

He married Hilda Woods in 1922 and Albert who died in WW2 was possibly born in 1924.

If you purcase the MC, the name of Edward A's father should be on it.


I know it is confusing to see all the names and records but this is the gist of it.

1901 census transcription details for: 27, St Helena Road, Rotherhithe
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 398
Folio: 131
Page: 20
Reg. District: St Olave Southwark
Sub District: Rotherhithe
Parish: Rotherhithe
Enum. District: 11
Ecclesiastical District: St Barnabas
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 27, St Helena Road, Rotherhithe
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
NORMANS, Thomas Head Married M 45 1856 Deal Porter
Rotherhithe, Surrey
NORMANS, Mary A Wife Married F 49 1852
N K, Essex
NORMANS, George Son Single M 18 1883 Deal Porter
Rotherhithe, Surrey
NORMANS, Ellen A Daughter Single F 16 1885 Cap Maker
Rotherhithe, Surrey
SAMUELS, Charlotte Step Daughter Single F 22 1879 Biscuit Packer
Deptford, Kent

Sounds like they're the same family - but with an 's' on the end of the surname.

Alviegal = thanks so much for all that. think its all coming together now where the Samuel family fits in with the Normans.

the only query is the Albert Edward Samuel (or Edward Albert as he was known by mymother-in-law). He is listed on the Alamein Memoiral as the latter name, but guess he could have switched his names around accordingly.

:-D

Could Esther be the daughter of Edward Albert's brother Stanley?

Name: Stanley George Samuel
Birth Date: 18 Apr 1929
Date of Registration: Nov 2005
Age at Death: 76
Registration district: Epping Forest
Inferred County: Essex
Register Number: 51C
District and Subdistrict: 470/1
Entry number: 6