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ROBERT EDDY WILLIAM BESANT b1869

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 17 Jan 2013 22:14

This is the US arrival of that 1896 voyage:

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Lillian Besant
Arrival Date: 30 Jul 1896
Birth Date: abt 1864
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Germanic

She's travelling with Robt E W Besant age 34 who is now a farmer?? They're headed to California.

So that 1890 marriage looks like a contender.

I daresay a reverend could farm as well?

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 17 Jan 2013 22:28

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi

(1956 Robert E W Besant on above)

Chris :)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 17 Jan 2013 22:54

Found Lillian in 1910, but not with Robert. She's with sisters:

1910 United States Federal Census
Name: Lillian Besant
Age in 1910: 51 [57]
Birth Year: abt 1853 [1859]
Birthplace: Ohio
Home in 1910: Ho Ho Kus, Bergen, New Jersey
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Sister
Marital Status: Married
Father's Birthplace: Ohio
Mother's Birthplace: Ohio

Household Members:
Name Age
Alice C Victor 49
Meta Victor 43
Lillian Besant 51 [57]

Says she'd been married 19 years. No occupation.

Looking back at the 1907 arrival I'd thought he was heading home to Hoboken, it could be Ho Ho Kus

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 17 Jan 2013 23:06

Gins posted the 1916 directory for him, but there's also this:

U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989 (Beta)
Name: Robt E W Besant
Residence Year: 1921
Street Address: 109½ E 51st
Residence Place: Los Angeles, California
Occupation: Hl
Publication Title: Los Angeles Directory Co's Los Angeles City Directory

No occupation
____________________________________________________________________

and

U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989 (Beta)
Name: Robt E W Besant
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1934
Residence Place: Los Angeles, California
Occupation: None
Spouse: Antoinette Besant
Publication Title: Los Angeles Directory Co.'s Los Angeles City Directory

Address: 109½ E 51st

Although Antoinette is named she isn't listed at the address.
_________________________________________________________________

Seems to be on his own in 1939 too:

U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989 (Beta)
Name: Robt E W Besant
Residence Year: 1939
Street Address: 109½ E 51st
Residence Place: Los Angeles, California
Occupation:
Publication Title: Los Angeles Directory Co's Los Angeles City Directory

Nicola S

Nicola S Report 17 Jan 2013 23:13

Marie Celeste, you are an amazing detective and you think outside the box too!

In the 1921 Directory, do you know what his Occupation of 'HI' might be please?

Back to this tomorrow.

:-D

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 17 Jan 2013 23:14

Nicola - that occupation is an error, there is actually none listed.

He's also at the same address in LA in 1914 and 1920 just listed as "Robt". No occupation on any.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 17 Jan 2013 23:23

Earlier on he seems to be in California:

U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989 (Beta)
Name: R E W Besant
Residence Year: 1901
Street Address: Lincoln av nr Minnesota av
Residence Place: San Jose, California
Occupation: Orchardist
Publication Title: San Jose City Directory Including Santa Clara County

He's listed just with "Mrs Besant" but in 1902 he's listed on his own.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 00:02

Just in case it comes in useful, this is Lillian with her family in 1870:

1870 United States Federal Census

Name: Orville J Victor
Age in 1870: 42
Birth Year: abt 1828
Birthplace: Ohio
Home in 1870: Hohokus, Bergen, New Jersey
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Ramsey
Value of real estate: $25,000

Household Members:
Name Age
Orville J Victor 42 - An editor
Metta V Victor 38
Lilian Victor 13
Alice Victor 11
Bertha Victor 9
Winthrop Victor 8
Lucy Victor 7
Guy Victor 5
Metta Victor 3
Martha Rayle 42
Anna Martin 23
Ridget Murphy 22

The family were quite comfortably off, it seems.

An interesting article about her parents:
http://pabook.libraries.psu.edu/palitmap/bios/Victor__Metta_Fuller.html

(Will delve some more tomorrow)

Margee

Margee Report 18 Jan 2013 00:08

California death records are free here:

http://vitals.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ca/death/search.cgi

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 14:02

Death of his first wife:

Web: New Jersey, Find A Grave Index, 1664-2011
Name: Lillian Victor Besant
Birth Date: 1857
Age at Death: 54
Death Date: 1911
Burial Place: Ridgewood, Bergen County, New Jersey, USA

(Think she may have fibbed about her age when she married R E W)

Nicola S

Nicola S Report 18 Jan 2013 14:06

How fascinating to find that article about her parents! You just never know what's going to come up, and I guess that's what keeps us all going at this Family History research.

Wonderful stuff.

Thank you to everyone who has helped.

I've emailed Glendale to see if there is a memorial to him, and possibly her too.

Just wish I could get him in the 1910 and then it might nail his occupation. Are we sure that he is listed as a 'Reverend' on the ship's manifest? We've known for ages that his papa was a Rector [C of E] but REWB seems to have emigrated long before he could have read Divinity/other in the UK and it's frustrating that his occupation slot is left blank on all the above documents. And do we deduce that he was childless from both marriages? - I see that Antoinette/Nettie was older than him, and his first wife is given as British though I cannot find their marriage here or over there.

Any ideas on this, please?

Hope that wherever you are, you are wrapped up warm against all this snow!

:-D <3

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 14:20

Nicola, I' ve posted details of his first marriage which was in 1890. Lilian was born Ohio but I guess it may have been assumed she was British on the shipping lists because R E W was.

He was definitely listed as Rev on that outgoing voyage and a farmer when they arrived. My guess is he wasn' t an ordained clergyman but perhaps he was a lay minister? Both families seemed comfortably off, maybe he had a generous allowance or private income?

Can' t see any mention of children but hadn' t specifically been looking. Will investigate.

Not wrapped warm - sat in garage waiting for car to be fixed (but at least they' ve got free wi- fi!)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 14:46

Second marriage

Robert Eddy William Besant, "California, County Marriages, 1850-1952"

name: Robert Eddy William Besant
event: Marriage
event date: 26 Sep 1913
event place: , California, United States
gender: Male
age: 49
estimated birth year: 1864
father: William Besant
mother: Violet Hewey
spouse: Nittie Lela Pratt
spouse's age: 51
spouse's gender: Female
spouse's estimated birth year: 1862
spouse's father: Leonard Pratt
spouse's mother: Betsey Belding
page: 265
film number: 2074107
digital folder number: 004929839
image number: 01261

Citing this Record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K8DW-1K8

You can view the original on familysearch, looks like second marriage for both but image hard to see on my phone.

Nicola S

Nicola S Report 18 Jan 2013 14:50

Great stuff again. Thank you.

I've just heard back from Glendale about his burial details; he is in a niche next door to his [second] wife who died in 1933. Just waiting to see the inscription on the tablet. So that's nailed for sure now.

Existence of any children by first or second marriage would be very very helpful, please. I'm thinking that there just may be offspring because someone knew precisely what his dob was at the time of his death and it is absolutely correct - I have his BC.

This is proving a very interesting line of research. The whole family have led very interesting lives; first daughter married an English pottery manufacturer and they emigrated to PA, first son became a Colonel and fought out in Egypt [twice] and we have his journals, second daughter changed her first name from Jane to Jean and married an eminent Canadian chemist, younger son is REWB as above. All these siblings EXCEPT Robert are commemorated on the grave kerbs as I have mentioned above.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 17:28

Nicola, REW was obviously an educated and literate person so quite likely had a copy of his birth certificate amongst his papers, or had it recorded somewhere. The death informant may have had access to those papers.

Given Nettie's age when they married it's highly unlikely they had children.

Wonder if he was a bit of a black sheep hence not mentioned on the kerbs?

Home in the warm and dry now and have had another look at the 1913 marriage record image. Definitely second marriage for both, he was widowed and she was divorced (which must be why she married in her maiden name). Wonder if his family didn't approve of him marrying a divorcee?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 17:44

I have searched high and low and can't see him anywhere in 1910/11.

He's either horribly mis-transcribed somewhere or was someplace where there wasn't any census (or at least none that is available on-line).

Who was the sister in USA?, I could check to see if he's with her.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 17:52

There's this incoming list in 1896:

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: R Besant
Birth Date: abt 1866
Age: 30
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 14 Apr 1896
Port of Arrival: Plymouth, England
Ship Name: Columbia
Shipping Line: Hamburg-American Company's

He's travelling with L Besant (28) and he's described as a "fruit grower" (ties in with the City Directory entries where he's an "orchardist"). I think maybe he just dabbled at things.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 18:16

Just in case it's useful, 1880 for his second wife:

1880 United States Federal Census

Name: Nettie L. Pratt
Age: 23
Birth Year: abt 1857
Birthplace: Illinois
Home in 1880: Wheaton, DuPage, Illinois
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Lenard Pratt
Father's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother's Name: Betza Pratt
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania

Occupation: At Home
Cannot read/write:
Blind:
Deaf and dumb:
Otherwise disabled:
Idiotic or insane:

Household Members:
Name Age
Lenard Pratt 60 - Doctor
Betza Pratt 58
Nettie L. Pratt 23
Lugi Stanpugh 28
Alexander Bower 22

(The last 2 are servants)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 18 Jan 2013 18:24

With her first husband:

1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Nettie Lawrence [Nettie Pratt]
Age: 44
Birth Date: Jun 1855
Birthplace: Illinois
Home in 1900: San Jose Ward 2, Santa Clara, California
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Henry H Lawrence
Marriage Year: 1895
Years Married: 5
Father's Birthplace: Vermont
Mother's Name: Betsy Pratt
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother: number of living children: 0
Mother: How many children: 0
Occupation:
Neighbors:

Household Members:
Name Age
Betsy Pratt 78 (mother)
Henry H Lawrence 38 Teacher of Music
Nettie Lawrence 44 Teacher of Menticulture ??
Lizzy Gilrad 54

I'm wondering if her occupation was Horticulture?

Note they're in San Jose which was where Robert was in 1901/1902 (Hmm .....)

Nicola S

Nicola S Report 18 Jan 2013 23:47

To Marie Celeste:
Thank you again and again for ALL your help on this one. Have just come in from very snowy evening and hope you're safe and sound as well?

His elder sister was EMMELINE ALINE WALKER, nee Besant. She married George Edward Walker in Cheshire and they emigrated to Philadelphia. I'm not near my records on this one just now and cannot remember their dates in PA and don't know either whether I have them in the 1910.

I'm not available at all tomorrow; will be on an errand of mercy so hope the weather is kind. But if you get a chance to look at the 1910 for him, perhaps in PA?, then I would be very grateful of course.

Will hopefully be back to this on Sunday and be able to add more meat to these bones of the info which I already know.

Thank you again.

PS: have heard back from Glendale, and REWB and also his second wife are interred there in separate niches, cremated remains.

:-D :-D