Find Ancestors

Top tip - using the Genes Reunited community

Welcome to the Genes Reunited community boards!

  • The Genes Reunited community is made up of millions of people with similar interests. Discover your family history and make life long friends along the way.
  • You will find a close knit but welcoming group of keen genealogists all prepared to offer advice and help to new members.
  • And it's not all serious business. The boards are often a place to relax and be entertained by all kinds of subjects.
  • The Genes community will go out of their way to help you, so don’t be shy about asking for help.

Quick Search

Single word search

The British Newspaper Archive

British Newspaper Archive

Read about historical events at the time they were happening. Perhaps you'll discover your ancestor in their local newspaper?

Start searching

Icons

  • New posts
  • No new posts
  • Thread closed
  • Stickied, new posts
  • Stickied, no new posts

James Thompson 1844?-1879

Page 0 + 1 of 2

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. »
ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Guy

Guy Report 6 Mar 2013 11:42

Who were his parents? His marriage cert shows that aged 28, resident in Weston Super Mare, he married Ellen Ratcliffe on 16/04/1872 at Preston, Lancaster. His profession was given as a Toy Merchant but there is simply a line through "Father's name and profession". No "Thompson" was a witness.
They had three children Margaret b 1873, Harry b1874 and Alice b 1877.
I cannot find any trace in the census records of 1871 or earlier.
He was one of my great grandfathers and I'd be glad of any help in tracing his ancestors.

Guy Mayers

Mike *

Mike * Report 6 Mar 2013 11:44

If he didn't know his father it could be that he was born out of wedlock


Marriage: 16 Apr 1872 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
James Thompson - 28, Toy Merchant, Bachelor, Weston Super Mare
Ellen Ratcliffe - 19, Spinster, Ribbleton Place
Bride's Father: Henry Ratcliffe, Farmer
Witness: Thos Yates; Alice Ratcliffe
Married by Licence by: Edmund Lee Curate

Potty

Potty Report 6 Mar 2013 11:56

Do you know where he was born?

Mike *

Mike * Report 6 Mar 2013 12:00

It would help to see the census you have found them on.

Is this the right family ?

1881
Name: Ellen Thompson
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Worcester St John Bedwardine
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address: Malvern Rd
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Lady

Registration district: Worcester
Sub-registration district: West Worcester

Ellen Thompson 29 - widow - born Wigan
Margaret Ann Thompson 8 - Weston super Mare
Henry Fisher Thompson 6 - Worcester
Alice Thompson 4 - Worcester
James Penney 58 - visitor

Potty

Potty Report 6 Mar 2013 12:03

Is this the family in 1881, with Ellen already a widow?

1881 England Census
about Ellen Thompson
Name: Ellen Thompson
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Worcester St John Bedwardine
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address: Malvern Rd
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Lady

Registration district: Worcester
Sub-registration district: West Worcester
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2913
Folio: 91
Page Number: 77
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Thompson 29
Margaret Ann Thompson 8 - b Westonsupermare
Henry Fisher Thompson 6
Alice Thompson 4
James Penney 58


Mike *

Mike * Report 6 Mar 2013 12:04

1891

Name: Ellen Thompson
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Standish, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Kidderminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Kidderminster
Sub-registration district: Kidderminster

James Penny 60 - widower
Ellen Thompson 39 - widow - born Standish Lancs
Margaret A Thompson 18
Henry F Thompson 16
Alice Thompson 14
James H Martin 27 - lodger


jansmith

jansmith Report 6 Mar 2013 12:20

only death I can see that fits age ,after last child born and before 1881 census?
Name:
James Thomson
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1845
Date of Registration:
Jul-Aug-Sep 1879
Age at Death:
34
Registration district:
Newport
Inferred County:
Shropshire
Volume:
6a
Page:
457

Potty

Potty Report 6 Mar 2013 12:22

There is also this death - although the age is a couple of years out:

Deaths Mar 1879 (>99%)
Thompson James 37 Kidderminster 6c 144

Guy

Guy Report 7 Mar 2013 11:36

Yes the 1881 census shows the recently widowed Ellen Thompson (nee Ratcliffe) and her three young children living at <alvern Rd, Worcester St John Bedwardine and the 1891 census shows they had moved to Spring Bank, Coventry Str Kidderminster. I'm also interested in the "James Penney" who was then living with them who family gossip says had three wives (long before divorce was a possibility!)
I don't know where James Thompson was born, it seems there were rather a lot of births of that name and I have no clues as to District etc and 28 years back from April 1872 could be 1843 or 1844. There seem to have been 87 such births in 1843 and 78 in 1844, how do I find the right one assuming he gave his correct age at marriage?
I have not got his death certificate since I don't think it will tell me much about his parents but I believe he died in Kidderminster in 1879.

Any help, clues or ideas would be much appreciated.

Guy Mayers

Potty

Potty Report 7 Mar 2013 12:04

Guy, he might not have been born in England - the census has James Thompsons of the right age born in Scotland and Ireland.

You could try looking at the images for every unmarried John Thompson on the 1871 and see if you can find one who is a Toy Merchant - bit of a big job though!

Maddie

Maddie Report 7 Mar 2013 12:09

I wonder if this could be your James penney
Name: PENNEY, James

Registration district: [?] Kidderminster

County: Worcestershire

Year of registration: 1845

Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep

Spouse's last name Not available before 1912

Volume no: [?] 18
MarriageFinderâ„¢: [?] James Penney married one of the following people Transcript
BAKER, Phoebe VIEW
GILES, Mary VIEW
GOODMAN, Mary Ann VIEW
THOMPSON, Sarah

1851

1851 England Census about James Penny
Name: James Penny
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Penny
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Kiddr, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Kidderminster
Ecclesiastical parish: Kidderminster
Town: Kidderminster
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Kidderminster
Sub-registration district: Kidderminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 1l
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 43
Piece: 2038
Folio: 289
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
James Penny 28
Sarah Penny 35

Page no: [?] 405

Reggie

Reggie Report 7 Mar 2013 12:42

Until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births.

As he was almost certainly illegitimate, the odds are that his birth wasn't registered.

Reggie

Reggie Report 7 Mar 2013 12:49

The 1871 census does not show anyone of the name and age residing in Somerset

Guy

Guy Report 7 Mar 2013 13:17

Thanks. The suggestion to try to find a James Thompson in the 1871 census whose occupation was a Toy Merchant doesn't seem to work since no occupations were given then. He could have been illegitimate, I was not aware there were no penalties for failing to register births until 1875!. He could indeed have come from Scotland or Ireland for all I currently know. I'm trying to find some earlier THompson connection and there don't seem to be too many direct clues BUT enter James Penney. Family gossip suggest that one of his wives was a Thompson, sister to James's dad. So "Maddie's" news on that is well worth researching and I will pursue that line - many thanks.

Guy Mayers

Reggie

Reggie Report 7 Mar 2013 13:46

Occupations were recorded on every census

Potty

Potty Report 7 Mar 2013 14:04

Guy, you need to look at the images, not the transcriptions, to find occupations. As Reggie said, they are recorded on all cencuses but only transcribed (on most sites) on the 1881, except for Scotland when on Ancestry they are transcribed on all the cencuses.

Guy

Guy Report 7 Mar 2013 22:49

Thank you, I've lean't a lot today. Regretably I haven't found a Toy Merchant in those James Thompsons born in 1844, sadly the "Mangle workers assistant" wasn't one of my relatives!

Guy

mgnv

mgnv Report 8 Mar 2013 10:38

Looking at Ellen's side:

Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
RATCLIFFE Margaret Standish Wigan & Leigh FISHER STND/4/339

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
RATCLIFFE Alice Standish Wigan & Leigh FISHER STND/5/143

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1852
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
RATCLIFFE Ellen Standish Wigan & Leigh FISHER STND/5/471


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1847
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RATCLIFFE Henry FISHER Elizabeth St. Wilfred, Standish Wigan & Leigh C28/1/481


http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 8 Sep 1847 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancashire, England
Henry Ratcliffe - Of Full Age Farmer Bachelor of Langtree
Elizabeth Fisher - Of Full Age Spinster of Bradley Hall
Groom's Father: Henry Ratcliffe, Farmer
Bride's Father: Richard Fisher, Farmer
Witness: Alice Fisher; James Darbyshire
Married by Licence by: Geo. Whitlock Curate
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1848, Page 241, Entry 481
Source: LDS Film 1526141
[Looking at the half dozen marrs on each side of ours, Jas Darbyshire is a witness on 9 of the 12 - probably he's some rellie of the parish clerk]

Baptism: 27 Aug 1849 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancs.
Margaret Ratcliffe - daughter of Henry Ratcliffe & Elizabeth
Abode: Langtree
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: E Layng Curate
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1869, Page 200
Source: LDS Film 1526140

Baptism: 25 Jul 1852 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancs.
Ellen Ratcliffe - Daughter of Henry Ratcliffe & Elizabeth
Abode: Langtree
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: W H Brandeth Rector
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1869, Page 232
Source: LDS Film 1526140

Baptism: 17 May 1854 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancs.
Margery Ratcliffe - Daughter of Henry Ratcliffe & Elizabeth
Abode: Langtree
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: James P Yeo Assit Curate
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1869, Page 251
Source: LDS Film 1526140


1851 England Census Transcription
Street:
Parish:STANDISH
City:
County:Lancashire
Division Of County:LANCASTER NORTHERN DIVISION
Ecclesiastical District:
Hamlet:STANDISH
House Name:OLD HALE LANGTREE
House Number:
Parliamentary Borough:
Municipal Ward:
Registration District:WIGAN
Enumeration District:4C
Source: Archive Reference:HO107 Piece Number:2198 Folio:165 Page:20

HENRY RATCLIFFE 1774 77 HEAD
ELLEN RATCLIFFE 1777 74 WIFE
HENRY RATCLIFFE 1822 29 SON
ELIZABETH RATCLIFFE 1815 36 DAUGHTER IN LAW
MARGARET RATCLIFFE 1850 1 GRAND DAUGHTER
ALICE RATCLIFFE 1851 0 GRAND DAUGHTER
MARGARET RIGBY 1787 64 SISTER IN LAW
JANE CLOSE 1828 23 SERVANT

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1853
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
RATCLIFFE Ellen 76 Standish Wigan & Leigh STND/5/5

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1855
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
RATCLIFFE Henry 83 Standish Wigan & Leigh STND/5/299

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1857
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
RATCLIFFE Henry 35 Standish Wigan & Leigh STND/6/31


1861 England Census Transcription
Street:CROSS FARM
County:Lancashire
Parish:STANDISH
City:
Town:
Ecclesiastical District:MANCHESTER
Parliamentary Borough:
Registration District:WIGAN
Registration Sub-District 1 Standish
Enumeration District:2
Archive Reference:RG09 Piece Number:2767 Folio:38 Page:17

ROBERT PATTON 1833 28 Standish, Lancashire HEAD M Farmer ? acres employing 1 man
ELIZABETH PATTON 1816 45 Standish, Lancashire WIFE M Farmers wife
ELLEN RATCLIFFE 1853 8 Standish, Lancashire STEPDAUGHTER Scholar
MARGREY RATCLIFFE 1855 6 Standish, Lancashire STEPDAUGHTER Scholar
ALICE GORE 1846 15 Shevington, Lancashire SERVANT U Farm Serv
MARGARET RIGBY 1796 65 Eccleston, Lancashire BOARDER U Fund holder

Mary

Mary Report 8 Mar 2013 11:47

James Penney born 1822 -1893 Kidderminster married Sarah Thompson ?? J/A/S 1845 V18 P405 in kidderminster.
She was born between 1818 -1822 in Stourbridge.

He is with a Sarah 1851/61 census.

1891 James Penny with Niece Ellen nee (Ratcliffe) and Great/Grand nieces and nephews,so it looks like Sarah thompson was sister to James Thompson.

Maryb.

Guy

Guy Report 8 Mar 2013 13:20

Fantastic info on Ratcliffe side, give me time to deal with real live grandchildren and I will try to absorb it all and come back. Thanks

Guy