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census help before go mad plz

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Kazzie

Kazzie Report 9 Apr 2013 16:10

Trying to find out who John william Flower was livinv with in 71 & 81 census he was born 1864 Bath his mum wasnt married so could be with relatives

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:14

Could it be that his mother married and he went by his stepfather's name?

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:15

A servant here:

1881 England Census
about John Wm. Flower Name: John Wm. Flower
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Bitton
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: Wills Bridge
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Gardener (UD)

Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Bitton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2445
Folio: 128
Page Number: 10
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Gay 47
Susanna Gay 47
Arthur Gay 15
John Wm. Flower 18



HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 9 Apr 2013 16:16

Kazzie you would have done better to stick your existing thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1322937

Jude

Kazzie

Kazzie Report 9 Apr 2013 16:19

Yes suppose he could have but another stumbling block no idea what mothers name was

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:23

How do you know his mum wasn't married if you don't know her name?

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:27

Perhaps you should order his birth certificate?

Births Mar 1864 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FLOWER John William Bath 5c 754

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kazzie

Kazzie Report 9 Apr 2013 16:28

Found his birth on Bath bmd and didnt list mums maiden name jusf said none

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:31

He's John William Flower on original, listed as visitor along with Louisa Flower:

1871 England Census
about John Willam Kowal Name: John Willam Kowal
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Bitton
Ecclesiastical parish: Oldland St Anne
Town: Oldland
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Oldland
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 74
Piece: 2500
Folio: 85
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Gay 37
Susanna Gay 37
Aurther George Gay 4
Louisa Flower 11
John Willam Kowal 6

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 9 Apr 2013 16:32

Or there's this one

Name: John Flower
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Flower
Mother's Name: Susan Flower
Gender: Male
Where born: Bath, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Walcot
Ecclesiastical parish: Walcot
Town: Bath
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Walcot
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 133
Piece: 2488
Folio: 14
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
William Flower 60
Susan Flower 50
Vertin Flower 22
Susan Flower 18
Sarah Flower 15
John Flower 9
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Kazzie

Kazzie Report 9 Apr 2013 16:33

Thanks for this

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 9 Apr 2013 16:34

But if you bought the birth certificate as Margee suggests it would list his mother - and father if known.

There is a seemingly well researched tree with some very nice photos on Ancestry that suggest his mother was Susannah and no father "illegitimate"

Jude

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:35

Possible for the couple he was with in 1871?

Marriages Sep 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flower Susan Keynsham 5c 1133
Gay Thomas Keynsham 5c 1133

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 9 Apr 2013 16:39

If it's the 1871 I posted (as opposed to Margee) this is "Vertin's" marriage (it is Virtue in the image)


parents: William Flower
spouse: William Thomas Frape
Name William Thomas Frape
Event MARRIAGE
Event Date 04 Aug 1901
Event Place Bedminster, St Francis, Ashton Gate, Somersetshire, England
Gender Female
Age
Christening Date
Marriage Date
Marital Status Single
Burial Date
Father George Herbert Frape
Mother
Spouse Virtue Mary Flower
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Father William Flower
Spouse's Mother
Digital Folder Number

Margee

Margee Report 9 Apr 2013 16:47

But if it's the 1871 I posted as oppsed to Jude, this looks like the Louisa on that census. She's a visitor along with Susannah, unmarried, dressmaker. Curiously there's an Alice Flower also aged 1 but born in different place so not twins.

1861 England Census
about Lousia C F Flower Name: Lousia C F Flower
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Walcot
Ecclesiastical parish: Walcot St Swithin
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Registration district: Bath
Sub-registration district: Lansdown
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 184
Piece: 1695
Folio: 36
Page Number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Andrews 36
Mary C Andrews 30
Susanah Flower 28
Alice Flower 1
Lousia C F Flower 1
Susan Young 79
Hannah Lindsey 68



HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 9 Apr 2013 17:03

I think Kazzie you really do need to invest in a certificate because there are powerful arguments for both 1871 John William Flowers!

As I say the tree on Ancestry does have the mother as unmarried and as Susannah rather than Susan.

Kazzie

Kazzie Report 9 Apr 2013 20:59

Yes thik will have to investigate in certificates think John waa leading a double live as first child born with Marian in 1913 yet married her 1939 neef to try and find him 1911 now seems a bit of a dark horse

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 10 Apr 2013 06:59

I think you need to be very careful about assuming there is only ONE John William Flower.

This is the death of the one married to Augusta I think

Name: John W Flower
Birth Date: abt 1864
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1946
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 42

and there's this death in Weymouth

Name: John W Flower
Birth Date: abt 1864
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1941
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Weymouth
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume: 5a
Page: 716

and this is the marriage that goes with the Weymouth death

Name: Marian A Mead
Spouse Surname: Flower
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1938
Registration district: Weymouth
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 935
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

This probate goes with 1946 death

Name: John William Flower
Probate Date: 15 Jul 1953
Death Date: 13 May 1946
Death Place: Gloucestershire, England
Registry: Bristol

Kazzie

Kazzie Report 11 Apr 2013 22:29

The one im looking for definatly married and died weymouth but where was he before he married Marion?and why wait till 1839 to marry her all the children births were registered in both names mead and Flower i do think he was married to someone else as well

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 12 Apr 2013 06:52

The it is nothing to do with John and Augusta and the family. Back to the drawing board!!