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Oliver Ingram His Father

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Tichey

Tichey Report 6 May 2013 04:33

Anyone on the Genes reunited Tasmania site??? Please can you find details of Charles Ingram.
Born 1866 In Tasmania Hobart..He is a British subject by parentage. Married 1888 in Bradford Yorkshire to Florence Fawcett . He is a Mechanics Labourer in the 1901 Australian census with a wife and three children. I am able to follow him forwards but not backwards.
I can only assume that Charles's Father went to Tasmania and either took his wife with him or found himself a wife in Tasmania. As I am not able to access Charles's birth certificate. I have no lead to find HIM prior to getting married in 1888,or his parent who were born in England.
Was Charles's dad a convict.? Skeletons in the cupboard. ????
.
Please can anyone help.
I look forward to a reply.
Have a great week
Patricia White nee Ingram. :-( :-(

Gins

Gins Report 6 May 2013 06:27

I'm a little confused with your post. Do you mean he was on the English 1901 census

1901 England Census
Name: Charles Ingram
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Florence Ingram
Gender: Male
Where born: Tasmmia, Australia

Civil parish: Hunslet
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hunslet
Sub-registration district: Hunslet
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 144
Piece: 4189
Folio: 43
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Ingram 34 <<Mechanics labourer
Florence Ingram 31
Anne Ingram 10
Fawcett Alexander Ingram 8
Oliver Ingram 1


West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Charles Ingram
Birth Year: abt 1867
Age: 21
Marriage or Bann Date: 3 Nov 1888
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<<??Time keeper 10 Radnor Street
Spouse's Name: Florence Fawcett
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Fawcett

Are you looking for Charles the 'son', as on the above census or his father?

Gins

Gins Report 6 May 2013 06:50

This appears to be his parents and siblings


1881 England Census
Name: Charles Ingham
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Ingham
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Bradford
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 1 Coach Row
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Stuff Warehouseman Pensioner 14th Regiment

Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Bradford, East End
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4444
Folio: 74
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Ingham 39
Ann Ingham 38 <<Lanarkshire
Andrew Ingham 20 <<Wellington, New Zealand
Margaret E. Ingham 18 <<Wellington, New Zealand
Sophia Ingham 16 <<Wellington, New Zealand
Charles Ingham 14 <<Melbourne, Australia
William J. Ingham 12 <<Melbourne, Australia
George T. Ingham 10 <<Chester, Cheshire, England
Alexander Ingham 6 <<Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Albert Ingham 1 <<Bradford, Yorkshire, England


1891 England Census
Name: William Ingram
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Ingram
Mother's Name: Ann Ingram
Gender: Male
Where born: Australia

Civil parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

10 Radnor St

Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Bradford East End
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3623
Folio: 26
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Ingram 52 <<Time keeper
Ann Ingram 52
Sophia Ingram 26
William Ingram 23
George Ingram 19
Albert Edwd Ingram 10


1901 England Census
about Charles Ingram
Name: Charles Ingram
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Ingram
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: Bradford St Clement
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Bradford East
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 275
Piece: 4151
Folio: 74
Page Number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Ingram 60
Ann Ingram 60
George Ingram 28
Albert L Ingram 20


Fredk

Fredk Report 6 May 2013 06:52



1911 Census Household Record
Household information
Address 14 Falmouth Street Leeds
Parish Leeds
Town Leeds
Type of Building Private House
Number of Rooms 3
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN26942 RG78PN1546 RD500 SD1 ED27 SN37
Administrative County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Registration District Leeds
Registration Sub District South East Leeds
Enumeration District 27
Householder 1
Name Charles Ingram
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Condition / Years Married Widower
Gender M
Age 44
Estimated Year of Birth 1867
Occupation Labourer Mechanics
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Forge
Place of Birth Hobart Town Lasmania
Nationality British Subject By Parentage
Householder 2
Name Ann Ingram
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 20
Estimated Year of Birth 1891
Occupation Housekeeper
Employed N
Working at Home Y
Place of Birth Yorks Bradford
Householder 3
Name Faweett Ingram
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 18
Estimated Year of Birth 1893
Occupation Lithographic Printer
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Yorks Bradford
Householder 4
Name Oliver Ingram
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 11
Estimated Year of Birth 1900
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Yorks Bradford
Householder 5
Name Charles Ingram
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 7
Estimated Year of Birth 1904
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Yorks Leeds

Gins

Gins Report 6 May 2013 07:03

Im wondering if the family were not born in Tas or NZ and are in fact Scotish. Im not seeing births over in Oz?


1871 England Census
Name: Charles Ingram
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Ingram
Mother's Name: Annie Ingram
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Nether Hallam
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
Town: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Nether Hallam
ED, institution, or vessel: Sheffield Barracks
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 4665
Folio: 115
Page Number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Ingram 32
Annie Ingram 30
Andrew Ingram 10
Margaret Ingram 8
Sophia Ingram 6
Charles Ingram 4
William Ingram 2 <<Oz


There is this possible birth for the 2 year old William above


Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: William Ingram
Father's Name: Charles Ingram
Mother's Name: Ann Mackey
Birth Place: Emerald Hill, Victoria
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 22202


A free search on Scotlands People brings up three possible marriage for Charles

Statutory Register Marriages 1860 - 1867.Learn more. 3 matches



Gins

Gins Report 6 May 2013 07:11

They claim to be from all over the place!

Here is Charles sister with her son Ralph, living with the mother


1911 England Census
Name: Ralph Dixon
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Bradford
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 14 Coach Row Bradford Moor (yorks)
Occupation: Accountants Office
Registration district: Bradford
Registration District Number: 498
Sub-registration district: Bowling
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Piece: 26719
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Ingram 71 <<Donegal
Albert Ingram 30 <<Bradford
Sophia Dixon 45 <<New Z
Ralph Dixon 14


Gins

Gins Report 6 May 2013 10:07

Looks like the birth that I posted for William (above) is correct. Here are baptisms for other children of Charles and Ann


West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: Ann Ingram
Birth Date: 7 Sep 1876
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Baptism Date: 19 Oct 1876
Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<Soldier
Mother's Name: Ann Ingram (Formally Mackie)

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: Ann Ingram
Birth Date: 7 Sep 1876
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Baptism Date: 19 Oct 1876
Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<Time keeper
Mother's Name: Ann Ingram (Formally Mackay)

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: Alexander Ingham
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1874
Parish: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)
Baptism Date: 3 Jun 1874
Father's Name: Charles Ingham <<Soldier
Mother's Name: Ann Ingham

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: George Thomas Ingram
Birth Date: 14 Sep 1871
Parish: Bowling, St John
Baptism Date: 11 Mar 1872
Father's Name: Charles Ingram <<Soldier
Mother's Name: Ann Ingram


Being as Charles was listed as a soldier, it might be helpful if someone with a sub to FMP could look at overseas marriages for Charles and Ann?

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 6 May 2013 12:11

Name: Oliver Ingram
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Gender:
Age: 1
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Bradford, Yorkshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Hunslet
Sub-District: Hunslet
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Judes
Civil Parish: Hunslet
District/Parish/County: Yorkshire (West Riding)

Tichey

Tichey Report 6 May 2013 14:56

Thanks Gins.1901 census information I have.

Charles Ingram. 34yr old Born in Tasmania
I am asking is there anyone with access to Tasmania records.
I am Seeking to know.
Where Charles was born in Tasmania. Name of Parents and any siblings.
When and to where did they return to England.
Did he return with his family or on his own?

The1881 Census Charles Ingram could indeed be Charles as a 14yr old with his family.
Well done and thank you for your help. You relay seem to have the hang of this. You are genius.
Much appreciated.
Have a great week
Patricia..
:-) :-) :-) <3 <3

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 May 2013 15:07

Hello Patricia - you're asking for further help but you've marked the thread as answered (if you tick one person's reply as answered it marks the whole thread accordingly).

If you go to your very first post there should be a purple button that says something like "mark this as unanswered" - click on that to remove the tick or people may not realise the query is ongoing and ignore it.

While you're doing that click on "edit" and you can then amend the title of your thread to include Tasmania - that way the helpers who specialise in down under records are more likely to spot it.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 May 2013 15:43

Patricia, given that the census for Charles born 1867 have been posted from 1871 onwards, where he is shown with his parents and siblings I don't know why you're asking if he came to England on his own or with his family?

Seeing as his father was a soldier then they probably moved around as a family.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 May 2013 16:14

This looks like a possible for his birth:

Armed Forces registration event: Birth

Name: INGRAM, Charles
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Station: Melbourne
Country: Unknown
Year: 1860-1867
Page: 471
Record source: GRO Army Chaplains Birth Indices (1796 to 1880)

I think you can order from GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 May 2013 16:53

pm from Patricia - she's going to order that certificate.

Gins

Gins Report 6 May 2013 17:05

Nice one MC........it's been driving me nuts today!

Are there records for the other children born overseas?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 May 2013 18:14

Not seeing anything obvious Gins .....

Fredk

Fredk Report 6 May 2013 18:20

Still has thread marked as answered

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 May 2013 19:01

Well, I suppose it is now that we've found what looks like the birth Fredk.

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 7 May 2013 09:28

I can only see the birth of son William in Emerald Hill, Victoria to Chas & Ann (nee MACKIE). Nothing for Chas jnr in Vic, NSW or Tasmania. Nor the births in NZ.

BUT this rather sad newspaper article I happened upon at NLA Trove does place them in Emerald Hill at the right time, and also mentions the 14th Regiment (Chas occupation in 1881 UK census is Stuff Warehouseman Pensioner 14th Regiment).
Sounds like Ann and the children were lucky to escape the fire. This is an excerpt:

The Argus, Monday 7 March 1870
INQUEST
THE FIRE AT EMERALD-HILL.
An inquest was hold on Saturday at the South Park Hotel, Moray-street. Emerald Hill, before the city coroner, Dr. Youl, on the body of an infant named Rosetta Hoy, aged three months, the daughter of Michael Hoy a private soldier in the 14th Regiment. The deceased was burnt to death on the night of the 3rd inst, during a fire which originated on the premises occupied by Duncan Finlayson as a grocer's shop. The first witness examiined was Duncan Finlayson, who stated that he carried on the business of a grocer on the premises at the corner of Moray and Raglan streets. The house was of wood, and consisted of four rooms and a shop. He occupied the shop and two rooms at the back. The two front rooms were let to a person named Ingram, a soldier in the 14th Regiment. Elizabeth Hoy and the deceased child lived with the Ingrams.
On the night of the 3rd inst. witness left the shop about half-past 8 o'clock ; the shutters were up, but the shop was not closed ; his daughter was in charge. He went down Clarendon-street to a meeting for the purpose of establishing a lodge. He had been away about an hour and a half when he heard the firebell, and on going up the street he found it was his own shop that was on fire. The stock is insured in the Adelaide office for £200. ...
Ann Ingram, wife of Charles Ingram, a soldier in the 14th Regiment, rented a part of Finlay son's house in Moray-street. On the night of the fire she heard the girl close the door about 10 o'clock. Five minutes afterwards she heard a crackling sound, but took no notice of it at first, but as it grew louder sho opened the door and saw flames at the back of the shop close to the partition. Witness ran to Mrs. Hoy, who slept in the room the furthest from the fire. She seemed half stupid, and said she would go to the other shop and call Finlayson. Witness called on her to come back, but she seemed confused and ran on. Witness had five children in the house, and had some difficulty in gotting them out. Everything she had was destroyed in the fire.
[It was believed the fire had been delberately lit :-(]


Other newspapers (including in Tasmania) incorrectly reported that it was a child of Private Ingram who had died in the fire.

Also, the 5 children stated tallies with the ones named in the 1871 census, and their birthplaces also fit with the regiment having been in NZ first: (see next post)
Andrew Ingram 10
Margaret Ingram 8
Sophia Ingram 6
Charles Ingram 4
William Ingram 2
Perhaps after the fire they decided to go back to England? Certainly narrows down when they travelled (ie between March 1870 and when the 1871 census was taken). Maybe the army sent them back because I can't see their departure in the usual index. Note in 1871 they were at Sheffield Barracks.

Can't find a marriage for them though in England, NZ or Aus. Since Ann was also Scottish, I suspect that is where you need to look.

P.S. Interestingly, the child of Michael & Elizabeth HOY was born in 1869 in Adelaide...but nothing for the INGRAMs there either!

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 7 May 2013 09:47

I think the 14th Regiment refers to West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) (14th Foot). This from Wikipedia:
"1858 saw a second battalion raised once more and took part in the New Zealand Wars of 1860-6"
which would explain why he was in NZ around that time...

From Paperspast (NZ newspapers):
Wellington Independent, Volume XV, Issue 1475, 27 November 1860, Page 5
The 2nd battalion of the 14th regiment, sailed for New Zealand nearly three weeks ago, to relieve the 65th but the battalion is inexperienced, and not likely to render very efficient services in the kind of warfare for which they will be required. We trust, therefore, that additional strength will be obtained forthwith and that if the Home Government have not seen the necessity of supplying it, the Colonial Government will feel the responsibility of acting with that promptitude and energy which the occasion imperatively demands.


There are later articles that extol the bravery of the men. :-)

From www.jaunay.com/garrisons.html
The following British regiments were known to have served in Australian colonies until all garrison forces were withdrawn in 1870.:
1866–1870 2/14th [2nd Battalion Buckinghamshire] Melbourne; Hobart; Adelaide; Perth; Fremantle; Sydney - from NZ; to England

2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment arrived in Australia in 1867, seeing service in Tasmania, Sydney ,Victoria & Swan River, returning to England in 1870.

:-)

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 7 May 2013 10:28

If you can fork out the A$20 for a Victorian birth certificate, William's 1869 birth certificate may reveal more. It must be paid online by credit card and can be downloaded instantly as a pdf.

It should not only state both parents birthplaces but the date of their marriage and any previous children.

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

I'm wondering if the births of the other children were never registered in the usual way, perhaps they were unaware of the requirements and just went through the army chaplains for the baptism/christening (as per this record posted by MC)?
Name: INGRAM, Charles
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Station: Melbourne
Country: Unknown
Year: 1860-1867
Page: 471
Record source: GRO Army Chaplains Birth Indices (1796 to 1880)

As MC says, you can order this certificate through the GRO, see www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/birthmarriagedeatharmedforces.htm

You can also view this record (for a fee) at FMP.

So nope his dad was not a convict but a soldier! :)