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Hi Delyth.
I'm not surprised your brain is in a fog, serves you right for having Welsh ancestors. If only the surnames were as colourful as the placenames. Bless them. I have Williams in my family too, including the inevitable William Williams of course, so I do sympathise.
Just be thankful for that Roberts middle name!
Jan

Oh Jan ... now I've done it again ... replied twice on this occasion because I couldn't find my original ... just ignore ... I've got a lot to learn.

Hi Jan,
Yes ... and this mystery will stay under my skin until there are some answers somehow!
Hannah was the Roberts and Catherine was the Hughes ... Hannah was the sixth of nine children of David and Mary (neeEvans) Williams ... both born about 1803/04. I haven’t got any further back with that line. It does seem a coincidence that Hannah and Catherine came from the same village ... although maybe that was how she got the job? As I’ve only got Williams and Evans for Hannah’s parents and no Hughes(es) I guess the only way I would know if they were related would be to eventually find out her Catherine’s mother’s maiden name .... and if that’s a Williams or Evans ... drives you round in circles in the end, doesn’t it? Are there no magic wands in genealogy?

Fair enough!
Looking forward to seeing your findings.
Jan

Hi Jan

Yes... this mystery is under my skin and will be until it is solved.

Thanks again .... unfortunately the Hannah in question wasn't Hughes before she married, she was Williams. Hannah (the 'lady of the house' rather than Catherine the servant) was born in 1840 in Llanrhaiadr (that may be a connection as I have seen somewhere that Catherine was born in Llanrhaiadr).

I will definitely let you know what the cert says ....

Delyth

We all like a mystery don't we! I do see what you mean about the middle name, but if Hannah Hughes turns out to be his mother that would explain the middle name really. Have you traced Hannah back to see if there is a connection with Catherine? I see she was born in the same place, so I would guess this is her,

1851 Wales Census
Name: Hannah Hughes
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert Hughes
Mother's Name: Grace Hughes
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanrhaiadr, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llech
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Ruthin
Sub-registration District: Llanarmon

Robert Hughes 50
Grace Hughes 50
Hugh Hughes 12
Hannah Hughes 10

Do you know where William was buried as he isn't with his family? EDIT sorry, I see you don't. But I would assume you have pinned down his death as you know when it took place.

Let us know what the cert reveals!

Jan :-D

Hi Jan
That's a big help ... I'll send for those certiificates straight away ....

Yes, there's another thing that makes me think all is not as it seems, which is that he is not buried with the rest of the family and I'm hoping against hope that if I find Catherine Hughes's grave one day, I will find his.

It may be a wild goose chase, as is often the case in these things I guess, but Hughes is a strange 'middle name' and he's the only one in the family with it, even amongst his other four siblings.

It's clear that the Robertses took him on as a son whether or not he was really theirs, but .... nagging doubt ....

Delyth, can I just ask you something? Is there a reason other than middle name Roberts that leads you to believe William was not the son of Owen and Hannah?

Might this be his birth record?

Births Jun 1878 (>99%)
Roberts William Hughes St. Asaph 11b 391

I'm wondering if this might be the Roberts' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1868 (>99%)
Hughes Hannah St Asaph 11b 585
Jones Emma St Asaph 11b 585
Roberts Owen St Asaph 11b 585
WILLIAMS Benjamin St. Asaph 11b 585

Jan

Thanks Jax ... glad to hear it's not just me.

Thanks Jax ... glad to hear it's not just me.

Delyth

Leave it as it is...not a good idea to start another thread

I just marked one of my threads as answered and like you can not undo it....maybe another silly idea from GR

Hi MarieCeleste
That box has disappeared on this thread (it's still there on my other thread that I haven't clicked).
I'm thinking (if there is a way of doing it) that maybe I should delete both threads and start a new one with a long first post summarising all the help I have had so far etc. Would that be a good idea?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1326453

Delyth, if you go to your post timed 12:54 it should be along that line at the top of the thread.

Hello folks

I have poked just about every button I can find and I can't seem to undo the 'mark as answered' thing. I have followed the guidance you gave me and opened up my original post, pressing everything I could find but the thread still remains the same. Does anyone know what I am doing wrong? Sorry to be a complete novice on this.

Further pm:

"Thanks for your help with this. You could be right re being married in 1881. There is another twist to this though ... in 1878 a little boy was born and was then brought up in the Roberts household .. always assumed to be owen and Hannah's child. However, he was the only one of five children to have the name Hughes Roberts (he was William Hughes Roberts) and that has always seemed odd. I'm wondering if
Catherine, as a domestic servant, was too poor (or even died in childbirth) to bring him up and the family brought him up as their own. William would have been my grandfather and we know little about him as he died when my father was three. I would love to know if my real great grandmother was Catherine now Hannah. "

Delyth, I know logic would dictate that when I've asked a question and you've answered it that it would seem to be the right thing to do to click on "mark this as answered". However, logic does not apply to some of the functionality of these boards so when you click on that it actually marks the whole thread as answered so people think you don't need any further assistance. To remove the tick just go to your very first post and there should be a button that says something like "mark this as unanswered". This anomaly has been reported to Genes but to no avail.

Thank you folks for being so generous with your time and expertise.
:-D

pm from Delyth:

"Thank you SO much for replying so quickly. The connection is that there was a son born (apparently) to the Roberts family in 1878 called William Hughes Roberts. None of the other children bear the name Hughes (he was one of five). I think it is too much of a coincidence that Catherine was called Hughes and think she was in fact William's mother. It looks like the Roberts family then brought William up but I would love to find out more about Catherine. William was my grandfather. "

Problem as a couple of possibles on 1851

Just want to say - not sure where ' Llanrhaiadr' (help) comes from as it says Denbigh on image!
Jan