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William Evans/Elizabeth Taylor 1862

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 19 Jul 2013 07:09

GlasgowLass...I had a look for Margaret Evans aged 6 in 1891...there were two born 1884...I plumped for the one born in Camlachie with my last credits...her father was George :-(

Richard Evans 1859 Norwich on 1861 census collection? I have tried and failed...would give us William's wife at time (which according to their marriage would not have been Elizabeth Margaret)

Angela

Angela Report 19 Jul 2013 01:35

Thank you so much for all your help, the transfers and irregularities had me completely stumped. I was just assuming that after getting married and settling in Glasgow that he picked up a trade???

Through the past 3 generations (starting with my own) the family had spoken of William Evans being part of the circus; we have also been told that he came from Wales?

Again, thank you for everything you guys have given me, appreciate it. :-)

Angela

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 19 Jul 2013 01:12

Hi Angela,
We I admit defeat!
Like Reggie, I couldn't find any trace of that 1862 marriage.

I still cannot tell if we are looking at the correct couple on census returns.

Something is bothering me.....
On the 1864 birth record for John William Evans, it says his father is a travelling showman?
The William Evans that we found in 1871 and 1881 was a Hawker.
How did he get to be a Boilermaker by 1887?

Looking at the Scottish records, the areas mentioned are for the most part, in the same part of the city ( now the city centre/ merchant city )
On the 1891 census for John and Mary, his POB is transcribed as Iron. I am certain it will be Tron.
I will also guess that Old Wynd is near to the current New Wynd which is just off the Trongate.
Soho Street, Argyle Street, Trongate, Old Wynd are all in this area and London Road starts not far from here
NB Argyle street is a very long road and starts at the Trongate.
Like most cities, the street numbers start at the city centre and work outwards. Therefore 13 Argyle Street must be in this vicinity

unsurprisingly, I cannot find John and Mary in 1901.

Angela

Angela Report 18 Jul 2013 22:18

Hi

Yes, John & Mary had a son John then Richard a few years later.

Elizabeth is Ocrofft MS Taylor on birth certificate and Elizabeth Evans MS Taylor on marriage certificate.

On marriage certificate neither W' or E' are marked deceased however Mary's parents are both noted as such?

Thanks everyone
Angela

Reggie

Reggie Report 18 Jul 2013 22:12

No record on freebmd to support the theory that the 1862 marriage was in Staffordshire...........

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 18 Jul 2013 19:37

Angela says "Mary C married John on 17/10/87 (the certificate has John as a widower) they where 21 & 18 yr respectively on the date. Mary resided at St Andrews Sq', Glasgow, John London St, Glasgow" - it's actually 7th October (had some unused credits on SP.

He is shown as a widower aged just 21 - so who was his first wife?

Reggie says "The son born in 1865 must have died.......otherwise, why would a second son of the father be given the same forename?"

I think where Angela says "they also had a son called John" she means John and Mary had a son called John....and subsequently a son called Richard who is her g/grandfather - Am I right Angela?

John's birth - the certificate definitely says Elizabeth Margaret Evans - and it looks like Occroft MS Taylor

date of marriage is June 11 1862, definitely Staffordhire but not sure what town (possibly Wednesbury though it's stretching it a bit)

wrt to John's parents at the 1887 marriage - they were not shown as deceased which doesn't necessarily mean they were actually still alive).

Jude

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 17:57


I will take a guess at London Road?

Angela

Angela Report 18 Jul 2013 17:32

Hi, thank you again for all your help.

Glasgowlass:- both William and Elizabeth are alive on the 1887 marriage certificate

Can I apologise as I realise that I haven't given the address that John registered as residing; 88 1/2 Londin (?) St, Glasgow.

Thank you
Angela

Potty

Potty Report 18 Jul 2013 14:39

Struggling to find them before 1871 as well. Richard should be on there.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 14:30

We are are still singing from the same hymn sheet Potty!
Someone has been married before, and as John and Mary also had a child called Richard, I think there's more to this than meets the eye!

Where did they go after 1881?
I don't see a potential death for either William or Elizabeth in Scotland.
If they did die in Scotland, whoever signed their deaths should know if either party had been married before...

Potty

Potty Report 18 Jul 2013 14:22

Just had another look at the 1871 and Thos George's POB is actually Crewe, Staffordshire. There is a 6 year gap between Richard and John in that census. I am wondering if it was a second marriage for either William or Elizabeth.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 13:45

Things are starting to look better.
Staffordshire does look about right, which means that possibly neither of John's parents were Scottish

On the 1891 census for John and Mary in Glasgow, the 6yr old child looks a bit too old to stem from a 1887 marriage.
As John was a widower, I suspect she is a child from his 1st marriage.

As for trhe address on the 1865 birth record it's probably something llke Old Wynd which is like a back alley!

Edit:

Angela.... were either parent William or Elizabeth marked as deceased on their son's 1887 marriage cert?

Angela

Angela Report 18 Jul 2013 13:28

Can I thank you all for this amazing help, I fully appreciate your research.

1865: John W Evans birth certificate states mothers MS as Taylor. I am having difficulty transcribing their place of marriage but it look like 'Staffordshire'; I will have to get this and their Glasgow address confirmed. Glasgow looks like 'Oldlbynd' although I'm aware I'm possibly way off line? Register in Clyde district.

1987; Marriage John & Mary Cochrane - Johns occupation - 'cloth lapper' (journeyman) again mother noted as MS Taylor. Williams occupation states - boilermaker (journeyman)

They had another child in 1904; Richard Evans on 04/08/1904 and registered 63 Soho Street, Glw', district of Camlachie.

I Concentrated on Richard as he is my great grandfather.

again, thank you for all your help
Angela

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 13:16

I did that too Potty...... I also looked for John and Margaret before I re- read the post!
LOL

Potty

Potty Report 18 Jul 2013 13:09

It looks as if Angela got the date of William's marriage from John's birth cert.

Potty

Potty Report 18 Jul 2013 13:07

No wonder I couldn't find the 1887 marriage - I was looking for Margaret not Mary!

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 12:31

Hi Potty,
Angela's opening thread has the birth date for John W Evans .
The corresponding birth record has a mother with a slightly different name to the one Angela gave
Therefore, I am assuming that she took the mothers name, Elizabeth Nugent Orcroft as it was written, from John W's marriage cert?

Rephrase:

Angela's opening post is looking for info on William Evans and Elizabeth Taylor who married in 1862

John William Evans born Glasgow 1865 has mother's name as:
Elisabeth Margaret Orcroft Taylor.
However in the text, Angela quote's the mother's name as
Elizabeth Nugent Orcroft Evans

The 1887 marriage cert will be written in a standard format and I am trying to ascertain the mother's exact maiden name ( sometimes written as "MS "or in full as "Maiden Surname")

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 12:22

John W Evans married Mary Cochrane in 1887.
Registered in Camlachie, Glasgow

Which is why I am looking at this:

1891 Scotland Census about John Evans
Name: John Evans
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Evans
Gender: Male
Where born: Iron, Glasgow
Registration number: 644/5
Registration District: Blackfriars
Civil Parish: Glasgow Iron Church
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 81 Trongate
Occupation: Cloth Lapper
ED: 61
Household Schedule Number: 25
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1891_261
Household Members:
Name Age
John Evans 23
Mary Evans 21
Margaret Evans 6

Potty

Potty Report 18 Jul 2013 12:14

Where did John and Margaret marry? I can't find a marriage in Scotland or England/Wales.

William and Elizabeth's date and place of marriage should be on the 1865 birth cert.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 18 Jul 2013 12:13

Hi Potty,
Yes, I did spot the difference in the name of William's wife.
Son John's occupation is the reason that I asked Angela to confirm what it says on his 1887 marriage cert.

A Calenderer would work in the cloth or paper industry.
A calender is a pressing machine for smoothing and finishing cloth or paper.