Find Ancestors

How would I find out if Emily, Edward, John and James went to the Workhouse between 1851 when their father died and 1855 when their mother emigrated? It could have been Holborn where their grandmother Susanna Hawley was. Just a thought.

Thanks,

Jill

Thanks rootgatherer.
It seems younger women were the way to go. Interesting that David should die from 'gout - years and gastric irritation - 2 days'. Maybe from self medication. Lots to chew over with my sisters.

Jill

1841

Name: David Borthwick
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil Parish: St Andrew Holborn (Above The Bars)
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View Image

Registration District: Holborn
Sub-registration District: Saffron Hill
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 671
Book: 7
Folio: 24
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
David Borthwick 50
Eliza Borthwick 25
Emily Borthwick 5
Edw Borthwick 4
John Borthwick 2
Susan Hawley 55

The above gives David's occupation as Proprietor of (can make out the next word) for the cure of gout.


There is also this one in Edinburgh in 1841 and he's a Chemist of some sort.

Name: Emer Borack
[David Borthwick]
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where born: Midlothian, Scotland

Civil Parish: Edinburgh Greenside
County: Midlothian
Address: Greenside Place Down Stavis No 2
Occupation: Chemistgiwaper
Parish Number: 685/1
Household Members:
Name Age
Emer Borack 50
Jane Borack 35
David Borack 12
Jane Borack 9
Robert Millegan 20
Alexander Mc Marando 15

(The correction to the name on Ancestry was added in 2010, presumably by someone who had viewed the original image)

This is the Greenside Place one earlier. He obviously had a career change too.

Name: David Borthwick
Dates: 1801-1825
Location: Town: Edinburgh edinburgh
Occupation(s): spirit dealer
Gender: Male
Address(es): Greenside place, no. 3; Town: Edinburgh
Source Date: 1824
Source Info: Listed in, [Edinburgh, 1824] The new and improved Directory for Edinburgh, Leith, and Suburbs, from Whitsunday 1824 to Whitsunday 1825; (to be continued annually); containing an alphabetical list of the Nobility, Gentry, Merchants, Traders, and principal Inhabitants. With An Appendix, containing Lists of the Magistrates and Council - Post Towns in Scotland, England and Ireland - arival and dispatch of Mails, Stage-Coaches, and Carriers - Shipping and Insurance Companies - Hackney Coach and Chair fares - Porters’ and Carters’ Rates, &c. &c. With a Street Directory, and a Plan of the City., [1824], ANON., Edinburgh. John Anderson, Jun. 55, North Bridge Street, and William Hunter, 23, Hanover Street



There is also this one


Name: David Borthwick
Dates: 1801-1825
Location: Town: Edinburgh edinburgh
Occupation(s): teacher
Gender: Male
Address(es): Elder street, no. 21; Town: Edinburgh
Source Date: 1815
Source Info: Listed in, [Edinburgh, 1815] The Post-Office Annual Directory, from Whitsunday 1815, to Whitsunday 1816, containing an Alphabetical arrangement of the Noblemen, Private Gentlemen, Merchants, Traders and Others, in the City and Suburbs of Edinburgh and Leith, with their Residence., 1815, ANON., Edinburgh. Printed by Abernethy & Walker, Old Bank Close, Lawnmarket

I have just received the death certificate for David Borthwick and after being a medicine dispenser in 1841, a medical man at James and Clarence's christenings, a surgeon - non practisng on the 1851 cenus and at his death in August 1851he was a 'Law Writer'! Chequered career.
I still have had no progress in finding his and Eliza's marriage or the births of the 3 older children -Emily 1837, Edward 1838 and John 1839. According to the census all born in Middlesex. I realise it wasn't required to register births that early so perhaps they weren't. It's possible that their marriage records have been lost or or the ceremony didn't happen at all. Maybe this is as far as I can go with this branch. If so thanks to everyone for all the help you have given me.

Jill

Thanks Kucinta,

Glad I wasn't just being blind.

From the Lyttelton Times Saturday January 5, 1856.

The 'Isabella Hercus', Captain Sewell, arrived in port early yesterday morning with 116 passengers for the province. Seven cabin passengers, and twenty one assisted emigrants for Otago. This vessel left London on September 18 1855. There were two births, and eight deaths during the voyage, four adults and four infants. Fever of a low character appears to have prevailed on board during considerate portion of the passage. Ten convalescents were admitted into hospital immediately on the ships arrival. Port of Registry: Workington. She sailed for Port Chalmers Feb. 1 and on March 5 she departed from Port Chalmers for Shanghai in ballast.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/isabella_hercus.htm

Sadly no crew list.

I have just received the marriage printout of Eliza Borthwick and Thomas Evins. It has her age as 35 when she would really have been 40, he was 39 and a mariner. Maybe he was part of the crew on the Isabella Hercus on the voyage out. I can't find any crew list for that trip in 1855/56 so will just assume.

Jill

Thanks Kucinta.

There is a family story that David Borthwick was married five times! This was from the same source as his incorrect death date so who knows? 5 seems an awful lot even for him unless they all died in childbirth or something. I have ordered his death cert but it won't be sent til 27th of this month so won't be til next month I get it.

Davids daughter Emily (14 in the 1851 census) has a story in the family that she was in Africa at a time when the Zulus were being rather unfriendly but that may have been a porky too. I expect she was married by then and not under Borthwick.

Ho hum

Jill

Sorry..... :-(

The baptism might well still be your chap, it's not a bad fit - but the various marriages do muddy the waters a bit.

Given David's age compared to Eliza's, it wouldn't be surprising if he had been married a time or two before her.

I did find the marriage of a Drusilla Borthwick to Samuel Arthur Begland in 1838, St Bartholomew the Great, City of London, and the 1841 census gave her birthplace as Scotland c1821, (presumably rounded down to the nearest 5 yrs, as per the instructions for over 15s in the 1841 census).

Needless to say I can't find her birth in Scotland on familysearch.

Her father's name was given as David Borthwick, and I did wonder if she was 'your' David's child by a previous marriage.

However the occupation of the David Borthwick on the marriage register was giving as 'dancing master', which doesn't seem to tally with your chap's medical background, so that probably rules her out.

mmm eeny meeny miney mo

There's always the chance the baptism I found might not be your David though...

There are three marriages for a David Borthwick at St Cuthberts around the same time, and at least two of the couples go on to breed in Edinburgh, according to the records at family search. Any one, or none, of the three might be your chap marrying for the first time.


Name: David Borthwick
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Alexander Purdie
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 05 Jun 1813
Event Place: Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Alexander Purdie
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11988-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 1066757
Reference ID:

Name: David Borthwick
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Helen Clark
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 15 Jun 1814
Event Place: Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Andrew Clark
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11988-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 1066757

Name: David Borthwick
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Janet Dickson
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 17 Feb 1814
Event Place: Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Dickson
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11988-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 1066757

https://familysearch.org/search/

This clipping seems to confirm the passenger list that Choccy posted:

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=LT18560105.2.7.1&srpos=2&e=-------10--1----2eliza+borthwick--

Details of Eliza's remarriage:

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=DSC18570317.2.7&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2eliza+borthwick--

What a great way to start my Thursday!!

Dea - yes that sounds correct. Diana got married in the house of Mrs Evins. I will need to get Eliza's marriage certificate to Thomas. Thanks.

Thanks for the christening record Reggie.

Kucinta you're a star. That birth of David Borthwick makes him the same age as his mother in law! I think he has some secrets. I have been wondering about the 6 year gap in the children's ages. (Between John and James) I wonder if they had different mothers? Maybe I'm getting carried away with the intrigue.

Thanks again everyone.

Jill

Marriage for James Borthwick and Helen Howden:

Name: James Borthwick
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Helen Howden
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 19 Nov 1781
Event Place: Edinburgh Parish,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: James Howden
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11985-6
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 993527


From the free site:

https://familysearch.org/search

??

Possibly a bit early. On the other hand, with a much younger wife, he might have been a bit flexible with his age:

Name: David Borthwick
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 25 May 1787
Christening Place: SAINT CUTHBERTS, EDINBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 22 May 1787
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Borthwick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Helen Howden
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11987-3
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1066754
Reference ID: 2:17RJ7HD

Name: Eliza Hawley
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 10 May 1816
Christening Place: SAINT MARY-ST MARYLEBONE ROAD,ST MARYLEBONE,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 06 Apr 1816

Father's Name: Edward Hawley

Mother's Name: Susanna

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03524-6

I wonder if Eliza remarried?

There is this marriage of an Eliza Borthwick in NZ in 1856 ?

1856/1673 Eliza Borthwick Thomas Orland Evins

Dea x

Thanks Maureen

The death for David Borthwick as found by Reggie is also listed on Ancestry with an address of Denton's Bldgs. which is where the family were in 1851,

Maureen