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Helen Lumsden Keith (c1871)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 12:15

This 1871 shows that his first "wife" was still alive and well when William Taylor Keith was in London with Jane and his new family.

PHILIP, Christina L Head Unmarried F 27 1844 General Draper Chapel of Garioch, Aberdeenshire
LUMSDEN, Helen Mother Married F 53 1818 Housekeeper England
KEITH, Robert W Brother Unmarried M 18 1853 Painter Canada West

Piece: 168 Folio: 49 Page: 46
Registration District: St Nicholas
Civil Parish: St Nicholas

Address: 5, Canal Street, St Nicholas County: Aberdeenshire

Given her age and location I think it eliminates her for sure as the mother of Helen Lumsden Keith born 1871 (so why did they use her name?)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 12:41

This may be why William and Jane didn't marry until 1879:

Aberdeenshire, Scotland, Extracted Parish Records about Keith. Lumsden. Ellen

Text: Keith. Lumsden. Ellen, 26 Oct 1878 ag. 61 yrs.
Book: Register of Burials. (Burial)
Collection: Aberdeenshire: Aberdeen - Register of Burials, Nellfield Cemetery 1830s-1900s

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 12:52

The baptism of Helen's daughter gives her first husband's name

Christian Lumsden Philip, "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950"
Name: Christian Lumsden Philip
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 01 Jul 1843
Christening Place: DAVIOT,ABERDEEN,SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 25 Jun 1843

Father's Name: John Philip
Mother's Name: Helen Lumsden

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11187-2
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 993179
Reference ID:

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 12:58

Helen's first marriage:

Helen Lumsden, "Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910"

Name: John Philp
Spouse's Name: Helen Lumsden

Event Date: 26 Nov 1840
Event Place: Chapel Of Garioch,Aberdeen,Scotland

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11179-2
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 993175

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 13:00

And the 1841 for them

PHILIP, John M 25 1816 Farmer Aberdeenshire
PHILIP, Helen F 20 1821 Aberdeenshire
BARRON, Helen F 10 1831 Aberdeenshire
IMLAY, Margaret F 25 1816 F S Aberdeenshire
MCKINZIE, Isabella F 15 1826 F S Aberdeenshire
KEITH, Alexander M 25 1816 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
SMITH, James M 15 1826 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
SMITH, Charles M 15 1826 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
MIDDLETON, George M 11 1830 Aberdeenshire

Piece: 179 Book/Folio: 6 Page: 4
Civil Parish: Chapel of Garioch

Address: Gunhill, Gunhill, Chapel Of Garioch County: Aberdeenshire

Robert

Robert Report 22 Dec 2013 17:41

Thanks ALL for the help on this one. Couldn't quite understand why Jean/Jane Miller was entered as mother on MC for Helen to Robert H Milne, this was causing a lot of confusion on my part. Did have the 1861 census with the Philip connection in it as well as the 1881 census with both William & Jane/Jean in it. Had also the BC of Florence Jones Keith of 1872 which as i said earlier helped to confuse things as the marriage between both William & Jane/Jean did not take place till 1879. Further confusion was caused by the marriage of Jean/Jane to William Robertson in 1877.
Will have to make a few changes to this line on family tree as i think it now establishes who is the rightful mother to Helen Lumsden Keith Milne. If no marriage between Helen Lumsden Philip to William T Keith, dont quite understand the reason for the Lumsden being the middle name either or for that matter child being named after her?. Also wasn't sure where the Upper was, you have established it was Canada, which i thought it may have been. So am i to take it there is NO blood connection with Helen Lumsden to other family members?
Thanks again, very much appreciated.

Rob.

Robert

Robert Report 22 Dec 2013 18:04

One more Question, in the 1871 census listed above by MarieCeleste Helen Lumsden was entered as married... to whom ? Also in her death cert of 1878 she is entered as Helen Lumsden Keith. Does that mean they actually got married and if so where ?... Upper Canada maybe ?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 19:22

Hi Robert, I've sent you the newspaper items. I came across another from 1877 where it mentions that William Taylor Keith had at one time set out in business with a Mr Lumsden - all very tangled indeed.

My hunch is that WT Keith did marry Helen Lumsden and most likely in Canada (haven't yet found anything on that but will have another scout around). I think it would be he that she considered herself married to on the 1871 census. As I mentioned earlier, I also think that's why he and Jane/Jean waited until after her death so they could legally marry. One of the witnesses in the 1877 court case suggests Keith was co-habiting with his housekeeper Miller and there were a number of children running around.

Another one of my hunches - when I read the various articles they imply he had a propensity for finding ways to make a quick buck. Could he have given Helen the Lumsden middle name with an eye to inheritance? Or, perhaps to his credit, it was given to her in recognition of his former business partner?

I'm not sure about an 1877 marriage for Jane/Jean to Robertson as she was already with him on the 1861 census.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 19:30

I think this is Jane's first marriage -name spelled slightly differently

Wm. Robertson, "Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910"

Name: Wm. Robertson
Spouse's Name: Jane C. Millar

Event Date: 16 Sep 1859
Event Place: Saint Nicholas,Aberdeen,Aberdeen,Scotland

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11168-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 6035516

(Wonder what happened to William?)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 19:36

This has got a good chance to be her in 1851, same sister as the 1861, mother's name Rebecca as passed to her daughter and the birthplace seems right:

MILLAR, George Head Married M 30 1821 Coachman Montrose, Forfarshire
SMITH, Rebecca Wife Married F 33 1818 Brechin, Forfarshire
MILLER, Jean Daughter Unmarried F 10 1841 Scholar Cupar Angus, Perthshire
MILLER, David Son Unmarried M 7 1844 Scholar Cupar Angus, Perthshire
MILLER, Mary A Daughter Unmarried F 5 1846 Scholar Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
MILLER, Margt Daughter Unmarried F 2 1849 Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

Piece: 168 Folio: 32 Page: 66
Civil Parish: Aberdeen

Address: 9, Carmelite Street, Aberdeen County: Aberdeenshire

Robert

Robert Report 22 Dec 2013 21:22

Hi MarieCeleste,

Think my Miller/ Robertson marriage could be wrong (no surprise there ! lol )
Had a William Robertson, c1824 . born in Crieff, Aberdeen. Railway Porter.
Think in this MC he is listed as fisherman and Jane/Jean's mother m/s is wrong also. This MC was for william Robertson to Christina Miller in 1877.
It does sound quite intriguing what with Helen Lumsden Keith marrying Robert Hutchison Mllne. Milne being another name thrown up in the article.
Thanks again

Rob.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 22:17

Yes, you made that connection quicker than I did Rob - Milnes, Millers, Lumsdens & Keiths all seem to be partners in business and marriage. This has been a fascinating one to research - if I find out anything on the Canadian side I'll let you know.

mgnv

mgnv Report 23 Dec 2013 04:44

Home / 1852 / Canada West / Brant (county) / 9 Oakland / p. 1a, (1)
Line Name Occupation Place of Birth Religion Residence if out of limits Age Sex
11 Taylor, Wm K. Inn Keeper Scotland W. P. 25 M
12 Phillips, Ellen H. Keeper Scotland W. P. 32 F
13 Phillips, John Scotland W. P. 11 M
14 Phillips, Christiana Scotland W. P. 9 F
15 Phillips, Wm Scotland W. P. 7 M
16 Phillips, Jas. Canada W. P. 2 M
17 Ennis, Robert Servant Ireland Roman Catholic 19 M
18 Tantran, Cathr Servant Ireland Roman Catholic 22 F
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1851_pdf/e094/e002341407.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1851_pdf/e094/e002341408.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1851_pdf/e094/e002341409.pdf [essentially blank]
[Nominal census day was 12/1/1852]
Agricultural census
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e094/e002341437.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e094/e002341438.pdf
Enumeration completed by 4/2/1852

Ontario was called Upper Canada until the early 1840s (I think), and then was renamed Canada West - I think it became Ontario when the Dominion of Canada was formed (1867), but I'm not sure of this.

EDIT
The agric census says Wm has a 2 ac lot under pasture - it's part of Lot 6 in Concession 1 in Oakland Twp, Brant Co.
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/Countyatlas/SearchMapframes.php
shows the village of Oakland straddles parts of lots 6 & 7 in conc 1.
This village still exists - it's abt 10km SW of Brantford.

Robert

Robert Report 25 Dec 2013 03:48

Thanks for the info ref. Canada, mgnv. No sign of a marriage though. MarieCeleste i noticed in one of your recent replies the surname Duncan ( bookseller ) being mentioned concerning bankruptcy. Dont know if it's connected but Helen Lumsden Keith and Robert Hutchison Milne had a daughter called Helen Duncan Milne. Duncan being the middle name. Gets more intriguing by the minute.
Thanks again.
Rob.